After looking through the old runs I find I am wrong about the number of pal runners that submitted and their desire to play on PAL. I think that with the way the leaderboards are going PAL should be included but only if every category can have at least 1 decent run. I have taken complaints about not allowing pal and frankly I can't blame them, that being said I feel there needs to be a show of desire to run on PAL to convince myself and others.

1. You can't split up full game categories into JP and US, This leads me to the conclusion that including JP is in contrast to the #1 reason for this leaderboard and that is competition.
2. You can see the different versions by the flag next the the Console Name in each run, if there was an agreement that these are to be categories where competition is not as important by the community then JP or all versions could be allowed(in my mind it's those 2 or all)

I think allowing console diversity in these less prestigious(or at least in my mind) categories that are naturally less suitable for optimization could be a way to bring runners with rare versions like myself and EU/PAL runners looking for a niche in the leaderboards apart from being forced to run on JP or EMU.

A topic that has not been discussed is which versions should be allowed for the full game runs. Currently All runs must be US-N64. I personally think having both US and JP legal in the same category would provide for a interesting trade-off in version selection, it's likely US is faster for all but I can see JP being easier for newer runners. Would be nice to have some creativity involved in version selection for these not as serious categories(just because of lack of true optimization).

I have locked discussion on this thread, if you want to post please refer to the "Allowing Other Versions on the Leaderboards" thread as this encompasses discussion on every version being allowed on the leaderboards.

I have locked discussion on this thread, if you want to post please refer to the "Allowing Other Versions on the Leaderboards" thread as this encompasses discussion on every version being allowed on the leaderboards.

I have locked all previous discussion on removal of versions from the leader boards to discuss in one thread.

First and foremost we want to encourage people to do serious attempts on the most competitive versions of the game, the Japanese version is much less competitive but there are AI differences that make it faster for some categories(specifically VH 1 Stock) and has enough differences to make it interesting to our active runners. Optimizing VC runs of either of these versions is a waste of time as no one will attempt to beat an optimized run on a slower console(VC will always be slower due to announcer cutscenes being longer), in addition there are very little runs that have been done on VC and the ones that have been done do not hove competitive times. PAL has the potential to be on the leader boards but is usually the last pick of runners even in EU as the 50fps Frame Rate not only makes the run slower but also more difficult to optimize. The IQue Version is functionally the same as the US N64 releases but with less lag, it's not comparable accurately and also only one runner(myself) has actually done runs on the console making it the worse for competition. We don't want to discourage people from running on their favorite version so optimized runs on other versions will be recognized informally by the community and the video promoted on social media by myself. Ultimately changes can be made to include additional versions on the leader boards but only if there is valid reasoning behind doing so that prioritizes competition. Our game has enough categories in need of optimization with the inclusion of the Japanese n64 version that we are skeptical of adding any more empty categories to our leader boards at this time.

The Virtual Console Versions of the game are very slow due to the differences in the announcer screen in between stages(comparison here: ) This is not a legitimate reason to ban VC in inself but it is a telling sign of popularity of the version for speedrunning. Since we started the original leaderboards there have been very few VC submissions and the submissions we did have were very optimized and only had a couple attempts done if that. We would like to encourage true competition on the leaderboards and frankly there wasn't enough competition to make VC a viable choice for our new organization. There are a number of other versions getting the same treatment including PAL& PAL AU N64, VC, and IQue. IF things change in the future and there is a legitimate interest/competition in VC we may include it on the leaderboards but for now we want to encourage people to run on a version there is competition for or run on EMU. Thank you for your interest, anyone is "allowed" to run on whatever console they like(I will be doing runs on versions not on the leaderboards) but we want the leaderboards to be a place of true competition.

I think comparison is not a good reason why as we can't compare JP and US either. I think a better reason is the extreme lack of interest in running on PAL, I am going to test and speedrun with the PAL versions but ultimately if I were to post runs there would be very little to no competition. Most EU runners would rather run on JP or US anyways as 50fps can be quite jarring/difficult to play(or so I have heard). IF we reach a point in the future where we actually have some people running PAL for whatever reason it might make sense to include in leaderboard. There are actually several versions getting the same treatment including PAL, PAL AU, VC versions, and IQue, there is just no reason to have them on a leaderboard where the main goal is to compete with others.

Those 3 categories are jokes, I implore you to use your better judgement and use the time attempting those categories on real attempts at real categories as we will be looking to "beef up" these leaderboards in the coming months. As far as I can tell there are no more decisions that need to be made and I am satisfied with the current organization/presentation, I think we may be ready to start transferring runs. Any additional issues I am missing?

Changing the Axis of character and category makes a lot more sense to me, it is standard for users to scroll down. Scrolling horizontally makes the page much less mobile/user friendly, thanks for the input demolition.

this is awesome that we didn't need to change the url, kinda confused on how the layout will display times. Will it display each 1st time for each character, and have you tested it with numbers to make sure it's not long horizontally to the point it goes off the screen?

The Smash 64 boards want to have the IQue player added to the leaderboards but not count towards rankings similar to how emulator is currently handled and have a seperate checkbox to filter the runs. I am not a mod on the boards but the main mod should be in this thread to vouch for this request later today.