https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/aa5anu/wrsuper_smash_bros_melee_all_trophies_in_61115294/?

Finally got my full run posted

I guess everyone is against adding this category

I want to run this. Are there distinct disadvantages to doing this on console, I'm assuming like load times? Dolphin 5.0 just loads matches faster...

If I were to run this on console, would it be measured against emulators too or get its own section?

Question, what about the exclusive JP-only trophies that can only be received via memory card? or is this run specifically for all trophies that are obtainable via 1.02.

@davidvkimballdavidvkimball I just now split Console and Emulator into two separate sub-categories since it would be very unfair due to loading time differences. Hope this helps!

@orangeisborangeorangeisborange I honestly don't know. The category was made by the previous Super Mod Pokemonmaster888 and he never specified anything in the rules sadly. You could always check in with the previous runners of the category, see if they needed to get it or not.

But unless it's required to get the "You have all the trophies!!" message, it wouldn't be needed to collect. And if it is, it'd just assume it would be the same as with the "Pikmin" trophy, meaning you just have it pre-saved on the Memory Card.

Thank you for giving me something conclusive! I got alerted about this surprisingly and I had forgotten I followed this forum haha! But yea, I think that's a pretty fair take, perhaps it could be written "All possible obtained trophies without external peripherals"? something like that. @NordanixNordanix

Regardless interesting run! Bit too long for me though lol!

Good idea! I adjusted the rules and made it a bit more clear regarding such trophies. Thanks for bringing this to my attention

@NordanixNordanix Thanks, that helps bunches!

@NordanixNordanix, one more thought. Are controllers like the b0XX allowed or expressly forbidden? It would make dash dancing a heck of a lot easier for generating the 1000 coins needed for the All Trophies run. Also begs the question, what about using keyboard for emulation for this part?

Just 2 cents I'm chiming in here about separating the consoles and emulators into categories due to loading times:

For a lot of PC game speed runs, the communities around some games will subtract loading screens from the final times in order to even the playing field.

It can be a pain, but some people do it lol

@davidvkimballdavidvkimball I mean there's no way to really know whether someone actually uses a specific controller anyway, so it wouldn't do too much to make a rule for that. I personally see no issues with such controllers. I mean SM64 does a similar thing with switching controllers for Bowser throws, so I don't see any real issue honestly.

I doubt it'd make that big of a difference in the grand scope of things in an All Trophies run since it's so long anyway, so I see no reason to forbid it as of now.

But you never know if it might become an issue in the future and eventually banned, so it's always safest to just use standard controllers. But use whatever is comfortable for you as nothing is forbidden as of now.

And since emulator is on PC, using keyboard should be fine, as long the binds are 1 to 1.

@Ford4DFord4D The category has runs ranging from 21 hours to 61 hours, there's no way we could manually subtract loading screens for runs that long. Loadless simply isn't an option unless someone decide to makes a Loadless Autosplitter or something. And even then it's not necessary when we have just splitted them anyway.

Yeah exactly. SUPER impractical without auto-splitter lol.

As far as controllers, I hope we never reach a point where B0xx style controllers aren't allowed. There are a lot of people with wrist and hand problems who can only use that style of controller. Accessibility and all that. Plus some of the creators of those controllers have built nerfs into them to try to move towards controller parity.

We're not there yet, but players I know are saying some targeted "buffs" to UCF would get us to real controller parity.

I just submit my run at charity event.

@davidvkimballdavidvkimball
>I want to run this. Are there distinct disadvantages to doing this on console, I'm assuming like load times? Dolphin 5.0 just loads matches faster...

I got Disc Error at Game Cube Console right after beating Very Hard Giga-Bowser...
Dolphin is easier and I recommend to use Wii.

@aMSaaMSa Hey!! I saw your charity stream run and was very impressed. Congrats on the first console run for it. The concern at this moment is Melee's rules for this category forbid the use of the Master Hand glitch, but I don't think it should invalidate your run. Hopefully a moderator will consider revising the Master Hand glitch rule just for this category.

The main issue I have with using Dolphin 5.0 specifically is this issue:

https://bugs.dolphin-emu.org/issues/9486

Randomly inputs trigger and it's very annoying. For some reason this doesn't affect all users, and it has to do with libUSB / Windows driver fighting. So I think I'll do my attempt on Wii if I can.

Hmm. We could revisit the thought of the master hand glitch. Since with such a huge category. I have no idea how much the MH glitch would save. I am not too familiar with the All Trophies category. I don't know who created the rule of no MH glitch but if it's Pokemonmaster then it may be difficult getting a hold of them and knowing why they put that. My thought is it may be for Events? Since i know some events with that glitch can be much easier. So in Event IL's or All events i could see that as cheating. But a category like this. I have no idea. Would suck to create a whole new category either. Cause then it would become 4 categories of all trophies if we consider emu/console differences. I would like to hear people's thoughts on this.

@davidvkimballdavidvkimball
>The concern at this moment is Melee's rules for this category forbid the use of the Master Hand glitch

wow I didn't know that.

@SukeSJSukeSJ
>I have no idea how much the MH glitch would save.
I only used it while "15mins multi man melee".
so basically it's not save a time and I took a break while this 15mins.

Sorry I'm not going to go through and quote everyone with exactly what point was raised but I'll go through what I saw skimming through this. Thanks David for reminding me to upload my latest run. And if people are actually going to be challenging me on this maybe I'll have to do more than 1 run a year. I plan on uploading the spreadsheet I use during the run which has my tricks for bonuses (although apparently every time a new bonus gives me trouble lol). IIRC my time was like 20:40 or something, but I'll see if I can finish cutting it and uploading it today.

MH glitch
I don't see any real reason why the MH glitch should be banned, but I don't think it really does anything besides make 15 minute easier. I'd have to test to see if it makes smash coins faster. I'm all for making that part of the game faster absent scripts.

Separate console and emu
Agreed, I think the old logic was that the system is next to the submission and with only 3 runs in 6 years it wasn't really a worry. If there are console runs definitely split it. Also, subtracting loading times when the run starts with 1000 loading screens would be SUPER impractical lol.

Weird controllers
I don't see any reason to police this, especially with emu and console split. I had asked on the discord if using keys to map to my crouching or dash dancing would be fine (I did do different 15 minute tests and I thought I was getting more from crouching than dash dancing, but I would have to check again). I don't think it's in the rules (maybe it is for melee overall, but not on all trophies?) but I think scripts should be banned; make people suffer for those coins.

The two other trophies
The game ends on the message for having all trophies. I don't think that this message requires those 2 trophies even on the 1.0 japanese version, but if that's not the case then it should end when they have the 290 other trophies imo.

I've talked to 1221 who's also ran this category and he's in favor of allowing the Master Hand glitch for this category. Open to anyone else's thoughts.

If the Master Hand glitch is still banned, there's always the much-harder-to-perform Ice Climbers freeze glitch method.

I always think it's up to runners of a category to decided how to approach rules. So seeing as @bwells626bwells626 and @ncb1221ncb1221 is in favor of it and @aMSaaMSa already uses it, I see no reason to keep it really banned for this category. Since there's no activity in the category with only a few runners anyway I doubt there'd be any problems with allowing it, and if it could spark more interest or make it more enjoyable to run, then I'm all for that. And if it ever becomes a hot topic in the future, we can always deal with it then and split it or something of that sort.

So unless anyone else has any objections, I'll adjust the rules for the All Trophies category to allow it.