Super Smash Bros. Melee Forum  /  In game time has been added!
  misha666420misha666420

IT WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED IF YOU COULD EDIT AND RESUBMIT YOUR RUNS WITH IN GAME TIME INCLUDED.

I will work on them but others helping would really just make this all go quicker.

 
  Pokemonmaster888Pokemonmaster888

Ah, I see. Thank you very much for this addition KuriGoat! 🙂 In-game time is the more consistent and fair way to time these categories and speedruns for multiple reasons like loading times, different versions, nature of the run, etc. I have resubmitted all of my current runs with the IGT added up by myself, before I even saw your post. 😛

On another note, I actually had been trying to contact you about this issue for a couple weeks now. I contacted you and the other moderators on YouTube and Twitch via personal message but never got a response. There does not seem to be a PM system here so I had to use those avenues to contact you guys.

If you need help with adding IGT times for the other runs I will be glad to help, although I'm not sure how much time I will have at the moment to devote to that job. As I stated in my run's comments, in-game time should be the primary value instead of RTA time, but I guess that won't work well unless we get many runs' in-game time figured out. Thanks again for this addition!

 
  Pokemonmaster888Pokemonmaster888

OK, I've been going through and calculating each person's IGT time for their runs. I can obviously only do the records that have videos, because otherwise the IL splits are not known. I've updated and finished all Classic Mode categories so far, and I will give an update when I finish more full categories.

 
  misha666420misha666420

Thanks for helping out. Because of the break I'll probably get some more IGT times for All Events added.

 
  Pokemonmaster888Pokemonmaster888

I have finished all All-Star Mode IGT and All Target Tests IGT run calculations. The All-Star - Normal run video for tatticadanito seems to be a broken link, so I could not get his IGT time. If you have the video saved, please upload it to YouTube. I am almost done with the Adventure Mode runs, and the All Event Matches IGT calculations will take a while; I'll help with that as soon as I can.

April 3rd, 2015 Edit: Adventure Mode runs are all done. Sawneyrath11's video seems to be broken as it cuts off at around 4:03 in. I could not calculate the IGT myself due to that. However, his IGT was written in the video's description so I got it from there. All that is left are the All Event Matches runs.

 
  pikashypikashy

Pokemonmaster found me on someone's stream, and mentioned IGT, and I thought I'd give my opinion on this for a few things.

First, I was told there was no actual method/rule of including things like Game Overs in Classic/Adventure/All-Star, and similarly for failing an event in all events (and similar situations for other categories).

I do believe that failed attempts should be added as well, if possible. Some categories, namely Classic mode for difficulties normal and higher, actually are faster if you game over during the run (Game overing makes Crazy Hand not appear, and it is faster to game over and fight only Master Hand than it is to not game over and fight Crazy Hand as well). Similarly, for all events, for example, it is common for someone to fail on certain stages unintentionally (e.g. Time For A Checkup).

If you do not include times for failed stages or failed events, it gives the incentive to repeatedly do an event or stage over and over until you get a near TAS time on that stage. Obviously this is something we hope nobody does, but if the option is available, someone will do it.

Also, unlike other games, namely smash 64, I actually think IGT is a good way to calculate time for this game. The time is to the hundredth of a second, so it is accurate basically to the frame, and the time is easily shown, so it can be calculated easily.

Pokemonmaster told me that there was no real rule or method for these, and reading this thread, I found no discussion on this, so I thought I'd post my opinions.

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this.

 
  Pokemonmaster888Pokemonmaster888

I think your post is fine for this topic pikashy, it is on topic. Your idea and points are very valid. I think that this probably is the best way to go. IGT sorting allows emulator competition, so that is good. However, the "segmentation" of runs where you retry many times to get the best IL IGT by continuing/failing a stage or level is an exploit that should not be allowed. It basically boils down to not being much of a speedrun anymore, and I think that isn't what is best for the game. I had in mind a debate on whether or not to actually count failed stages IGT times in my runs for Classic Normal and higher (and other player's runs), but I decided not to as I thought only completed stages should be counted. Your facts that you brought up have changed my mind though.

I'm not sure what other rules we could use instead of counting failed stages for IGT times; My friend suggested making a "no failed stages" rule but that probably wouldn't work as it would invalidate many runs on the leaderboards now. Any ideas or suggestions? We need feedback from players to create this rule(s) ASAP so we can get it finished and have everything sorted out. Runs will probably have to be recalculated again too.

 
  pikashypikashy

I'm not really a fan of saying "no failed stages" for multiple reasons.

The biggest reason is accessibility to lower level runners. Say some newer casual players who aren't really good at the game decide to try out adventure very hard mode 5 stocks for a challenge (SRL race, for example). Allowing game overs allows them to possibly actually complete the mode, even if it were done in over 40 minutes (if they game over on a hard stage having started with 2 stocks, they restart the stage with 5 fresh stocks). Preventing game overs, however, means that they will probably not complete the run. Sure the newer player's time may not be anywhere close to the top times, but allowing them to actually complete the mode will more likely attract them to running the game and improving.

Another equally large reason (I'll use all events as an example) is if you are one of the top runners in the category, you've got a god run going, 2 minutes ahead of your PB (or WR), had perfect RNG, and on a later stage, you make a critical mistake early which would cost you a lot of time, due to a fast strat no longer being possible. A normal runner would reset the stage (Start, Z), and take the 5-10 second time loss for failing, and try the fast strat again. Not allowing resetting will force this runner to use less optimal strats (assuming their failed strat does not end up with them suiciding and failing the stage). On top of that, forcing people to not be allowed to fail a stage means that these runners are now under even more pressure that any wrong move will cost them the run, meaning safer slower strats may or will be used to ensure that the stage gets completed. Slower strats on later event modes is obviously not something that should be 'forced', but when someone is scared to lose a run, safer strats are often used.

On a slightly related note, the smash 64 community allows game overs in runs. It makes it more accessible to runners trying categories a little out of their skill level or comfort zone. Being lenient with the rulings has actually made more people interested in speedrunning the game.

.

All that said, although I do believe a "no failed stage" rule is not the best thing for this game, it's not a bad rule to implement. It does have its advantages, like forcing people to take their stock count into account when doing their run so as to not game over (meaning planning out the run to figure out which stages to do risky strats, and which stages to do safer strats), and force people to do the full mode instead of skip a part of it (e.g. classic mode and Crazy Hand). So although I am currently not entirely in favour with having a "no failed stages" rule, it's something that still in my opinion should be debated and discussed, and maybe after seeing other people's opinions and reasonings, I might change my mind as well 😛.

That said, you don't have to have the same ruling for every category. You could, for example, allow failures for some categories (e.g. all events), and ban it for other categories (e.g. classic/adventure etc). Keep in mind that depending on what ruling you decide to use for each category, you could significantly alter the strats used in a run. So be careful when deciding.

Sorry for the long post, just thought I'd put in my opinion on this.

I just realized I had this post written out about 2 hours ago and forgot to press post. oops 😛

 
  mugg1991mugg1991

could someone figure out the ingame time for the current 1st place in classic normal (the fox run)

I feel like my run was executed better but falls behind because of loading times. Probably a wii vs gamecube thing... >>

 
  Pokemonmaster888Pokemonmaster888

Hi mug1991. Sorry for the delay in getting to this, just saw it today. I have calculated the In-Game Time for Lykon's run for Classic - Normal and it is 2:21.10. This places it in 4th place when sorted by IGT, your run of 1:51.49 is still 1st. I'll be calculating more IGTs for the existing runs on the leaderboards when I have time, but if any of you guys have requests I'l get to them sooner.

 
  mugg1991mugg1991

Thanks

I suppose I would be interested in Lykon's and my IGT on classic hard, but it's not very important.

 
  mugg1991mugg1991
(edited: )

on the btt leaderboard it seems igt and realtime are mixed up. for example, demon9's mario says 7.99 as realtime instead of ingame time.

megaqwertification seems to be placed 1st erroneously for a few characters.

Realtime on btt leaderboard seems pointless.

 
  RyddyxRyddyx

How can i calculate IGT

 
  mugg1991mugg1991

Can someone add IGT to my Classic Hard (Ganondorf)?
I calculated
60-53.84 + 60 - 49.74 + 60 - 59.71 + 60 - 44.89 + 60 - 59.32 + 60 - 58.24 + 60 - 34.58 + 120 - 43.24 + 54 - 52.71 + 60 - 50.79 + 60 - 44.68 + 59.99 - 33.32

3:08.93

Pokemonmaster888Pokemonmaster888 likes this. 
  Pokemonmaster888Pokemonmaster888

I have added the IGT you specified to your run. Thanks for taking the time to calculate it. We work on adding IGT to the runs that are missing it, but as stated originally, the runner should be the one actually doing that.

 
  TritachTritach

How does one record in game time? I know dumb question but I haven't been paying attention to it. I got a time of 2:48.01 on Classic very easy. How would I be able to calculate that?

 
  Pokemonmaster888Pokemonmaster888

@Tritach I had answered this question in the other topic about in-game time. I'll explain again though. Please note that you do need to record the speedrun in order to be able to refer back to the video for the in-game times for each level. That's important as you have no way of getting the in-game time, otherwise.

To get your total IGT for the run, you have to add up the in-game time for each stage, which is the starting time on the in-game clock vs. the ending time on the in-game clock. You subtract the finish time from the starting time which gets you the in-game time for that stage (the time that passed). You then add these up for all stages in the run. It is a bit of a tedious process but well worth it because it is the most accurate form of timing for Melee. Real Time Attack is useless for SSBM due to the fact that there are so many variations for loading times between consoles/USB loaders/emulators. We wanted to get a common ground for speedrunning competition, and the fact that the game has an in-game timer made things a lot easier for us in that regard.