Super Smash Bros. Forum  /  All Forum Content From Previous Leaderboards (Locked)
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide
(edited: )

All content from is in chronological order, Current Date is June 13, 2016 please do not post on this forum I will lock it when done

Thread Title: First by TheTrooble 1 year ago

OP:So we have forums and proper leaderboards now. Enjoy and feel free to contact me with questions either here or on skype.

Replies

GhillieGuide:
Thank you for all your work Trooble 1 year ago
bluewiregaminglikesthis

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide
(edited: )

Thread Title: Emulator best times by InprisonedShadow 7 months ago

OP: Submit your Emulator times here if you have a good one! Can keep track of that wr list here.
C. Falcon Very Easy 5 Stock 6:12 wr
Link Very Easy 5 Stock 7:42 wr
Ness Very Easy 5 Stock 7:30 wr

Replies

CowlScatman:
all of my runs are emulator runs 7 months ago

bluewiregaming:
Inprisoned shadow I was under the impression I had the Captain falcon VE 5 stock WR Oh well, I guess I can try to beat 6:12 Something to work toward. 3 months ago

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: Growing the Following of Smash 64 Running & Runners 1 year ago

OP: I believe that smash 64 has room to grow into a more accepted and followed speedgame. I wanted to start a thread to discuss what efforts we can make as a group to make that happen. Personally I believe that having a twitter account that tweets/retweets the best 64 runs as they happen would be a good start.
TheGlitched64 and CowlScatman like this

Replies

CowlScatman:
That sounds like a great idea. 9 months ago

bluewiregaming:
What about organized races and perhaps making 'tutorial' videos for different runs. The game isn't that hard to get into and speed run so I feel like getting new people (even those who have never seen smash before) involved wouldn't be too much of a challenge. 3 months ago

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: IQue Legality 1 year ago

OP: Our community has yet to come together with a decision on on the IQue Player's legality regarding leaderboards. I would like to invite everyone to give their feelings on the manner so we may come to a fair conclusion.

Replies

TheTrooble:
I am a bit new to this discussion, how much time does the iQue save and is it a retail version or is it some kind of inject? 1 year ago

GhillieGuide:
It is about 4-5 seconds on my run I believe but I have no means to test the number of things that would take but I will upload the footage to test the lag on this run if someone wants to take on the task of figuring out all the things that lag and how much they lag. I was only part way through through the process but it was too much. I recorded on the same setup but got different results but you could see the lag on things like killing enemies, stage hazards, items, explosions, hitstun in general etc.
edit: it is an Official Nintendo Product 1 year ago

GhillieGuide:
related
1 year ago

GhillieGuide:
Seriously though, does anyone have any opinion on this matter. This thread has been viewed enough that anyone who wanted to give an opinion on the matter has had a chance. Everyone I talk to doesn't have a problem with IQue being legal considering it will be a separate category just like the NTSC-U, NTSC-J, PAL and VC versions. It looks very bad for our community when one of the top runner's runs are not on the leader board cause we can't communicate well enough to come to a decision on version legality. Another thing that looks bad on our community is having runs on the leaderboards with no video, I am not calling into question the legitimacy of the times but merely proposing that all times without a video be removed from our leaderboard. If the runner does not want to submit to this leaderboard noone should do it for them, that is their decision. 1 year ago

GhillieGuide:
If we are going to exclude any versions of smash 64 released by nintendo then we would have to make a standard version that we only accept runs on, If that happens I will continue running on IQue and stop my attempts to support this leaderboard because that is not how I see 64 growing as a community. 1 year ago

bluewiregaming:
Ghillie I'm still a bit new and upon learning about the Ique and the time save I personally think of course it should be allowed IF it is set as a separate category. If we could find out something like time saves (which is probably damn well near impossible) then I'd be fine with having one "universal" leaderboard with times adjusted to a normal fair system. One problem I see with this idea I have already is that (im pretty sure) AI acts differently in the various versions which is still a variable we can't reconcile.

Whatevs, I think its fine if its a separate category.

P.S CMON SSB64 SR COMMUNITY!?! WHERE YOU AT 3 months ago

bluewiregaming:
When you realize a topics most recent reply is over a year ago...

DEEEEERP

I done derped. 3 months ago

GhillieGuide:
The official decision on IQue and versions is that each version is a different category due to the large differences between each for such a short game. There is no way to decisively determine the difference between N64/IQue and even VC as the lag created from game play is not consistent due to the large number of possibile situations. There are indeed strats that have not been found and many of the WR runs have a good amount of time to save. Each is to be treated as a seperate category, I was offered to have my IQue run featured on here as a EMU run but I declined. I believe there is a problem with adding another version to the site admin-wise so for now IQue is only allowed to be submitted as a EMU which I am personally not choosing to do. Run on the version you want 3 months ago

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: Add a Board Platforms category ? by Timo 4 months ago

OP: Hi there, I'm new on this forum, nice to meet all of you guys

It's been 3/4 days I'm training with friends on Board the Platforms, and maybe could we add a section ?
It's very addictive !

I think I'll try some runs on 1P Mode too !

Thank you !

Replies

InprisonedShadow:
I dont think BTT/BTP will ever be an official category; and will cause some flooding to the categories that already exist. 4 months ago

Timo:
Too bad, you maybe were the only one site which could make it happen...

But I really think it could create activity : BTP and BTT are short and funny, and people who practice it could also try 1P Mode, and then create activity !

There are TAS on YT, I'm surprised BTT/BTP charts still doesn't exist 4 months ago

deal_4_real:
People have done BTT runs before, you can find some on Smashboards if you Google it. Now I'm not active in the SSB64 speedrunning community by any means, but I don't see any clear reasons why BTT and BTP couldn't be categories. 4 months ago

GhillieGuide:
As an active member of the smash 64 running community I don't believe we should hold individual BTT/BTP records as other sites have reasonable compilations of records. The one thing other sites don't do so well is providing video links/evidence in order to learn faster strats. IMO if a separate site was fully dedicated to ssb64 records that would be the best as the amount of control we have over this site is lacking and it would be crazy to try and keep it updated. I would like to see this site add more versions of the game(specifically IQue) and a couple more categories i.e. All Unlocks and All Bonuses to include more people that want to run those categories and get some recognition for it. 4 months ago
bluewiregaming likes this

bluewiregaming:
Ghillie would you be willing to work with me on creating such a website for those improvements? I feel like a site dedicated specifically to ssb64 running could be great for expanding the community and as you mention having more control over a leaderboards system. We could also include the tutorials and stuff I mentioned in another thread. I am not the best at making websites but I am fairly familiar with simple website creators like enjin. 3 months ago

GhillieGuide:
Hey bwg if you are interested in working with me to make an official ssb64 running site I am interested. Join the discussion on #ssb64speedruns on discord and we can work together to make it a reality, looking to do some tutorials also. 3 months ago

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: Could we add an "All Unlockables" category? by iceonlava 6 months ago

OP: Characters + Mushroom Kingdom + Sound Test + Item Switch. I've seen the category on YouTube, but not here, so just want to make sure if it's an option.
Woutt64 likes this

Replies

GhillieGuide:
All Unlockables is an extremely uppopular category in this game, since I have made it there has been little interest. If more people post All Unlockables Times it may be added 5 months ago

pikashy:
The reason unique categories like All Unlock are not included on the learderboard is not because they are unpopular, it is because they do not fit. The way the leaderboard is set up, we have each character as a main header, with sub sections for difficulty, and any other sub sections we require. This makes it perfect for solo runs on characters to be on the leaderboard.

Where this causes a problem is when a category does not fit this description. Unlock All Characters, for example, does not have an easy way to be included. It is currently added as a '13th character', but still contains the sub sections for each difficulty (i.e. UAC very easy, UAC normal, UAC hard), and all other sub sections that are in effect for the individual characters. Because of this, any 'non-standard' categories become hard to add into the leaderboards.

All that said, I was not the one who organized the leaderboards, nor have I looked into a solution to this. I was told this is the best we can do by the person who did make the leaderboard, so that is what I am assuming. Looking at other games (e.g. SSBM), their work-around is to have each category as a main header, thereby allowing the extra categories to fit. Due to the many categories that are ran for our game, however, this option does not work, and having a 'grid' like system makes more sense.

Unlock All Characters, All Unlock, and any other popular enough 'odd' categories, are all things that I personally think should be added, it's just there is no realistic way to add them at the moment (at least not that I am aware of). 2 months ago
InprisonedShadow and GhillieGuide like this

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: SSb64 speedrunning chat room (in the making) 3 months ago

OP: Going alone with what GhillieGuide has been saying I would like to help grow and strengthen the SSB64 speed-running community as well as provide a general place for players to discuss different strategies, host races with one another and help new members get involved. Currently I am willing to set this all up (it wouldn't be too hard) but I am just wondering what platform to do so on.

Skype would be good but I have started using discord recently and I (personally) like that it is in browser and requires no download. It allows for voice chat (similar to ventrillo or Teamspeaks) and just plain ol' text chat. Please let me know what you think about using skype or discord and I will get to work on setting things up!

Replies

CowlScatman:
I'd prefer discord honestly. It's easier to use and isn't a resource whore for lower end pcs. 3 months ago

bluewiregaming:
Discord is nice because you don't really have to download it (if you dont want to) and you can sign up easily as it is rather painless. 3 months ago

InprisonedShadow:
there's already a skype group. 3 months ago

GhillieGuide:
discord IMO is much better than skype, I have had problems with skype in the past and discord seems easy and integrates with other speedrunning communities better. Inprisoned I believe we should switch to discord for the reasons above. edit: I have created a smash 64 speedrunning discord at #ssb64speedruns, if you want to join that's the channel name and my username is GhillieGuide edit: changed the name to #ssb64speedrunning 3 months ago

InprisonedShadow:
well i will probably never use discord so.. ¤stick tongue emoticon¤ out 2 months ago

pikashy:
I'm not against having a discord group. However, people shouldn't be forced into joining a group (Skype or Discord) if they don't want to. If people do not like skype, they can use discord, and vice versa (or just join both if they want to).

What I am worried about is that having some people in one group, and some people in another group, with no interactivity between the groups, will split the community in two. Some people have demonstrated they don't want to use Skype, while others don't want to use Discord, so we already have a split right there. I myself am in the Skype group, but have no immediate plans on joining the Discord group (though that could change over time). If we are to have two separate groups, we should be promoting both groups to new people, so as to give people the option of which group they want to join, or even encourage joining both groups. But please, don't promote your group and disregard the other group, as that will cause friction in the community (and that's the last thing we want).

If we do have two separate active groups, it could allow us to have 'crew battles' of some sort, or a big 12 character relay race between the two groups. This may end up being good for the community overall if it is done well, and would give the game some decent exposure due to the 'friendly' competition between the groups.

All that said, having two groups, if done well, can be a good thing in the community. We should promote both communities, and let the new member choose which one he would prefer (or suggest joining both). That said, if this is the route we are taking, please be respectful of each group and its members, even if they are not in your group. 2 months ago

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: target test ILs by Seclusive_ 7 months ago

OP:i noticed that there are no target5 smash learderboards in this game like there are in melee, if it would be possible, i'm sure allot of people would apreciate it.

Replies

Woutt64:
I was actually thinking about the same thing. If they are going to add IL's for BTT, I think it would also be interesting to have Board The Platforms IL's 7 months ago

InprisonedShadow:
there probably wouldn't be IL's for that would cause a mass amount of flooding on the leaderboard. I myself have done ALL Characters BTT. Which will be made a category soon 7 months ago

hotdogs:
I would really like to see and participate in BTT records. BTT is some of the most fun I have in Melee and 64 but I cant share my fun with others. 5 months ago

bluewiregaming:
I am working on a website to host IL records

I can't seem to find anybody posting actual Individual Level runs for BTT and BTP

PLZ submit to me your stuff 3 months ago

GhillieGuide:
IL is pretty tricky as if you fail on a higher difficultly on 1p and re-try it lowers the AI difficulty. Noone is interested in running ILs as it would be a pain. 3 months ago

Woutt64:
cyberscore actually has IL's of both BTP and BTT so if you want to submit runs you should probally do it here: http://cyberscore.me.uk/game/114 2 months ago

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: Changing Category Organization by Pikashy 2 months ago

OP: Currently, the categories are set up so that Characters are the main category, with sub-categories being difficulty, version, etc. The problem with this is that unless you specify a sub-category (e.g. difficulty), it shows all runs regardless of sub-categories. For this reason, if, say, you pick Luigi, by default, Very Easy is going to give the best times. This will make a lot of people do only very easy runs, and ignore the other difficulties, because it gives a faster time.

This was a worry of mine as soon as I saw the leaderboard organized the way it is. At first, it wasn't a problem, since everyone was still running the categories they were previously running (mostly Normal 3 Stock, the "standard" difficulty that is ran). However, as veteran runners have been doing fewer runs, and new runners are coming in, people are now diving into the Very Easy only train. Most runs I am seeing on twitch from new runners are Very Easy runs, and I have a feeling that the organization of the leaderboard is a large reason for this.

As I said, the leaderboard is set up in a way so that unless you specify a difficulty (which most people probably won't think to change), It puts all the runs together, making very easy runs naturally faster than normal runs, which are faster than very hard runs. Not only that, but because they are all put together, it picks your fastest time of all those categories when it puts it on the leaderboard, meaning, if you're looking at Luigi, it is choosing your easiest difficulty time only, and is disregarding your normal and very hard runs, making those categories less appealing.

The other problem is, if someone does like doing Normal runs or very hard runs, a god very hard run still gets out-sped by a mediocre very easy run, which is what would be represented in the leaderboard the way it currently is set up. At first, everyone did normal 3 stock runs, and maybe did one character (DK or Kirby) for "fastest completion of the game" category (obviously on very easy). But since the leaderboard was created, as soon as someone did a very easy run in your character's category, you are almost forced to start doing very easy runs as well just to get your time back, and this happened for all characters.

While I am not against people doing very easy runs, or having very easy as being the 'standard' category, I think the way the leaderboard is set up is not ideal for our game. It currently shows the 'fastest time for a given character', which is by default very easy, so nothing is gained.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

What I am proposing is changing how the leaderboard is set up... basically entirely.

The main category would be the difficulty, with characters being a sub-category. This makes it so that all difficulties are now equally viable to run, and none of them are being made irrelevant due to another category out-speeding it. It also makes it so that when you don't select any sub-categories, it selects your fastest completion of that difficulty with any character. This would make multiple characters show up in the default view of the leaderboards instead of the current "very easy only" view.

This is a format that, in my opinion, makes the most sense for the way our game is ran, and for the way the categories exist. More people are worried about "what is the fastest run on X difficulty with any character", than "what is the fastest run on X character, on any difficulty (i.e. very easy)". Most people I talked to seem to prefer the method I am proposing, but some are saying the way it is is better.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

So my question is this: Do you guys think the leaderboard is fine the way it is set up, or do you think it should be switched to showing difficulty as the main category, with characters as a sub category?

Feel free to give your opinions on this, whether you are in favour of the current format, the format I am suggesting, a completely different format, or anything. Even if you are on the fence, stating your reasons why you agree or disagree with a format can help us determine which format to use. No opinion is a bad opinion, and the more people that give their opinions, the better a format we can make for this game.

Thanks for reading, and sorry for the long post,

pikashy

<(^o^)>

Replies

GhillieGuide:
Hey Pikashy,
I understand your concerns and agree that changes should be made to keep this leaderboard user-friendly and acceptable for community use. I agree with the idea of changing the hierarchy of the leaderboards to show the fastest runs of the category 1st regardless of character for efficiency's sake. I think the number of new players running very easy has more to do with the difficulties of very hard 1 stock and the relative inactivity of Normal 3 Stock runs/runners, especially considering you and shadow's ve runs right before you went "inactive" again. I would also like to once again advocate for having all the versions on the leaderboards. 2 months ago

pikashy:
Including more versions is something we can look at and discuss as well, assuming all versions have an option to be included. Given we are discussing rather massive changes to the leaderboards, now is the time to discuss anything like that.

That said, I think it's something we should discuss separately though, as version discussion will be a completely different conversation than formatting the leaderboard layout, so maybe starting another topic for that would be better. I'd recommend starting a new topic instead of reviving the other topic, because nothing really happened in that one. 2 months ago

GhillieGuide:
With the proposals I have made on the other topics I believe the change proposed by pikashy here to be the best course of action for this website.
Having each category seperate will allow new runners to easily see which characters are proven to be fastest, and if they want to see the fastest run for their character they just need to select the filter. 2 months ago

InprisonedShadow:
∠( ᐛ 」∠)_ 2 months ago

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: Videos Of Runs by Poqs 6 months ago

OP: Why no video evidence reqs for top level runs?

Replies

InprisonedShadow:
well on certain occasions we know the level of skill the top people possess, if we believe it is possible that the person could have achieved the run, then it's fine. although they have deleted peoples runs who we didn't know of, never wanted to contact any of us & had 0 proof. But in most cases we'll have probably pikashy and estimate if those times are possible. 6 months ago

Poqs:
Thanks for the info, I'm just getting into speedrunning. Got a better capture card so hopefully I'll have more credible proof as a new challenger 6 months ago

InprisonedShadow:
hopefully! 6 months ago

pikashy:
The way I see it, there's two sides to it. For the super competitive side, requiring videos means that all of the top runs will have video proof, allowing people to view strats and improve their own runs. Ideally this would make the most sense for a fully competitive side to speedrunning the game.

That said, on the casual side, not everyone has access to a recording set-up, and not everyone wants to drop money just to have a run accepted on a leaderboard. This is more common for lower level players, or people who saw the game and wanted to give it a try for fun. Forcing video recordings when submitting runs basically restricts these players from submitting runs, essentially making a rather large barrier for players to show up on the leaderboards. So for a more casual and more accessible leaderboard, not requiring video evidence makes the most sense. This is a large reason why we currently do not require video proof when submitting runs.

To some extent, the leaderboards runs under the 'honor system' (essentially 'don't cheat'). That said, if a run's legitimacy is in question, we have many ways to figure out if it's a real or fake run. I've removed several fake runs, including one earlier this week. I have a general idea of what times would be achievable by a given player's skill level, and what times would be 'optimal' for a given category, so I can generally figure out if a run is real or fake.

A good example to all of this is Clubbadubba's Falcon Very Easy run. He has a run that would be considered WR by a significant enough margin over Shadow's 2nd place and my 3rd place runs, but Clubba's run has no video proof. However, he is one of the top smash 64 players in North America, and explained the strats he used to achieve that run. Although it is not video proof, his skill level is high enough that the run he got is achievable, and he had enough 'proof' through describing strats that we could conclude the run was legitimate.

In Clubba's case, he was new to speedrunning smash 64, wanted to try it out, grinded a category, and got a very fast time. He did not have a capture device at the time, so every run he did was not recorded.

Although we currently do not require videos when submitting runs, this is something we can change at a later date. If we start getting several 'fake' runs, or if some other situation occurs that makes video proof necessary, we can make the change. However, for a more accessible leaderboard, not requiring video evidence makes it easier for new runners to join.

All that said, all the active top runners record every run they do, so for 'top runs', they will have video evidence. Excluding the Clubba case, all the top runs for every category has videos. So although videos are not required, it is something top runners still try to do. So for this reason, making a video requirement is not 'necessary' for top runs.

Sorry for the long post, just making a long post to make a long post. 2 months ago
InprisonedShadow likes this

GhillieGuide:
Hey Pikashy, I def see both sides of the arguement. I guess one question I have is why someone would want to be shown on the leaderboard without something to show for it? I don't understand the motivation for someone to show they are adept at something without having proof of said adeptness. If they just want to run the game casually why bother submitting, if they take it seriously how do they expect to improve without a clear comparison. I have a couple reasons for supporting only allowing runs with videos on the leaderboards(at the very least for top 5). One reason is to provide incentives for people to create new content, creating a larger visible presence on video sharing sites and also on twitch/hitbox and social media and reaching more potential new runners. I believe having the leader boards be more "official" in the eyes of new runners and runners of other games is also extremely important. This arguement is based on removing the potential value of being able to see your run on the leaderboard right away vs feeling like the leaderboards are more exclusive/competitive and effort will be needed to get on them. I believe the value provided from the latter psychologically to be more beneficial but I could be wrong.
Thoughts Anyone? 2 months ago

pikashy:
I thought of a way to have a "happy middle" between the two, which is to allow people to submit runs with or without video. However, by default, runs without video are not shown (you have to toggle it on, like emulators). The problem with this is that, from what I searched, this is not an option implemented on this site yet. If this is a solution that people are happy with, we can make a suggestion to the site mods if making that an option is something they can implement. 2 months ago

GhillieGuide:
IMO for now having all runs displayed alongside each other is best considering our community size and the amount of runs we have currently. I am going to try and post runs of every category to beef up the boards. I think in the future if we grow we should look at this again but for now it is fine like it is. organization is probably a bigger issue atm. 2 months ago

GhillieGuide:
I wanted to make another post in conjunction with the post I made on the inclusion thread. My proposal there was to restrict the leaderboards to one version but also to remove the runs without videos on the site, this would make the leaderboards a place where all runs are comparable or on EMU and every run listed would link to a video. I believe making these changes would create a site that would foster true competition and also create a much better image/less confusing image of our community from outside eyes. 2 months ago

pikashy:
Looking at the leaderboards as it stands, I am not sure if requiring videos for all runs is the best idea. I agree, ideally it makes the most sense, but I just now browsed through each character, and about a third or a quarter of the runs have no video. All these runs would be lost.

What if we were to instead require, say, the top 3 runs have video? Shadow and I already have runs in the top 3 for almost every category, with video. Currently, there are 7 characters in Very Easy 5, and 8 characters in Normal 3, that have a run in the top 3 with no video (Very Hard has runs for all videos in top 3). However, most of these runs are far away from WR, meaning that between you (Ghillie), Shadow, and I, and any other top runner, we can knock these runs out of the top 3.

The only run I think we won't knock out is the Falcon Very Easy 5 Stock by Clubbadubba. The Very Easy Samus run by Clubba and the Normal Samus run by Prime are two runs that I think we can eventually knock out of top 3 over time (I may have missed another category or two), but otherwise, the remaining runs are all over 30 seconds away from WR (some over a minute), meaning we can do runs so that all the top 3 runs (minus the categories I listed above) are with video.

For an easy reference, here are the current categories containing a top 3 run without video:

Very Easy: Mario, Link, Samus, Falcon, Kirby, Fox, Jigglypuff
Normal: Luigi, Mario, Link, Samus, Falcon, Yoshi, Kirby, Jigglypuff

If we were to agree to requiring a video for top 3 runs, I'd say we should leave the runs without video already submitted (at least for now). Most of those runs will be beaten out of the top 3 anyways, so no reason to remove them.

------------------------------------------------------

I also think allowing non-top 3 runs to be submitted without video is a good way to grow the community. Not everyone has access to recording equipment, but even for those runners, they can submit runs and be included in the leaderboard. Maybe as they improve, they'll want to get recording equipment to record runs at a later date, or as they approach a top 3 time. 2 months ago
InprisonedShadow and GhillieGuide like this

GhillieGuide:
I agree, working towards having top 3 runs on each category is likely the best we can do at this time. My friend is working on Very Easy 5 Stock for Falcon(sub 7 run unrecorded with 7:02 recorded, goal of WR with new strats) and I am also looking at posting a top 3 time on the category(and the other 5 stock ve categories). I do have a goal of putting up videos of all categories on NA N64 in the next couple months after easter speedsters in order to learn enough to complete more tutorial videos. What about top 3 runs submitted after this conversation? Are we as of now not accepting top 3 runs without video or will that time come later? 2 months ago

pikashy:
I'd say we should allow most of them for now, since once you get runs of all categories, several of those runs will likely get bumped from the top 3. On top of that, some categories can get top 3 with 'slower' runs. Some very hard categories, for example, have less than 3 runs already (some have only 1), so a run submitted would qualify for top 3 by default. Obviously, if a run is "too good", we can always ask for strats used, etc. So that said, we can always accept them on a case-by-case basis. Most of the higher level runners that run with no video are not running for the time being, so I don't think we have to worry about any 'too good' runs for a while. 2 months ago

clubbadubba:
I'm really sorry guys I feel like a total bum. I promised I would record at least a sub 6 falcon run and I haven't even tried to get a recording set up going aside from buying a capture device. Its still something I want to do, but honestly all of my smash focus since I did that run has gone into competitive 1v1 practice and getting the Northern Virginia scene going. I just messaged Ice King to help me out in person some time in the next few weeks to get all the equipment I need to record. No promises on when I can do it, but I can at least try to get it set up. Just tell Ice King to yell at me if I don't get it set up yet again.

And in the meantime maybe I can do a few runs on our weekly smash stream (twitch.tv/nova_ssb on thursday nights, shameless plug) and one of them will somehow be sub 6 minutes. 2-3 runs a week on the stream before our tourney means it will only take me about 2 years to get good enough RNG to pull it off

And if you guys want to remove me from the list I'd totally understand, posting a WR time like that without a video is pretty bs I know. It would take a long time to ever get a time like that again, but I could probably get a sub 6 in not tooooo much time I hope. 2 months ago
GhillieGuide likes this

pikashy:
You can always do what I'm going to do. For Kirby Very Hard 1 Stock, I have an unrecorded time of 7:12, and a recorded time of 7:44. When we transfer over to the new system, I'm going to only submit my recorded time, but include in the comment of the run that I do have a 7:12 run that wasn't recorded. That way, the time I got is still there, but as a comment instead. 2 months ago

clubbadubba:
yea i see shadow has an unrecorded time of 5:53. sounds like a plan 2 months ago

GhillieGuide:
This is more an overall discussion on videos on the leaderboard clubba, we used you as an example but we have many runs without videos. I can't even stand posting a video that has a run more than 8 minutes so I imagine pikashy is right about moving the runs off top 3. 2 months ago

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: Version Inclusion on Leaderboards by GhillieGuide 2 months ago

OP: Currently our culture as a community states that every version is not to be compared with others due to the large(and often incalculable) differences between versions. Currently our leaderboard does not allow runs to be submitted on the IQue version of the game, I believe this is a problem with the site itself(not able to add additional consoles. Despite being unable to select it I have been offered by the community to put my IQue runs on as EMU, I declined but there is a larger discussion to be had about IQue being on the leaderboards. Some runners feel that it should be on the leaderboards as it is an official release, and some runners feel having IQue times creates a unfair obstacle for new runners to get the fastest real time run possible. If new runners/runners who haven't weighed in could give some opinion that would be much appreciated

Replies

pikashy:
I'll give my opinions on the whole picture of this discussion. I am going to make multiple posts for this. My first post will be very long. It will describe the version differences, along with the availability of each version, as well as why each version is used. If you do not want to read this, you can skip this post entirely. I am simply making this post so that people new to the discussion can have a better idea of what exactly we are discussing, and to have a better understanding of the whole discussion and the potential impact of the decision.

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As it currently stands, we have a massive majority of runners who run on the NA console version, a few people who run the Japanese version, a couple who run the European version, and one or two who run the iQue. The current decision is that each version is looked at differently when it comes to a leaderboard, meaning the NA version and Japanese version are not compared with each other, etc.

As far as the fastest versions, for the easier difficulties, iQue is the fastest, followed by Japanese, then NA, then EU. For the harder difficulties, iQue and Japanese are the fastest, followed by NA, then EU.

Let’s compare each version to the NA version. I'm picking the NA version because it is the most commonly ran version, and it happens to be in the middle of all the versions.

(WARNING: EUROPEAN VERSION MATH AHEAD!)
The European version is very similar to the NA version in gameplay, with very few significant changes. However, the massive difference for the EU version is that it runs at a slower frame rate. The European version runs at 50 frames per second, while every other version runs at 60 frames per second. This means that, for example, if something were to be completed in 300 frames, the European version took 6 seconds, while every other version took 5 seconds. Looking at the fastest completed run of the game, DK Very Easy 5 Stock has a time of 5:42 on the NA version. The European version with the exact same run would have taken 6:50. This applies to many games. So for the European version, the major difference is the frame rate.

For the Japanese version, the whole gameplay is very different. Hitstun is reduced, certain moves have different knockbacks, and probably more importantly for speedrunning, the AI is 'easier'. A run on Very Hard on the Japanese version is at a difficulty around Normal/Hard on the NA version (this is a guess, I do not know the exact comparison, but from what I've seen, it's close to that area). This allows for different strats between the two versions, which usually favours the Japanese version (though this is entirely character dependent, most notably Jigglypuff having a significantly worse 'rest' in the Japanese version, making NA faster). Basically, for the purposes of speedrunning, both versions have very different playstyle and AI difficulty, changing how the game is ran.

The iQue has a completely different difference from the NA version. It has the same framerate, the same gameplay, essentially everything is identical. Where the iQue is different is that the iQue does not lag (if it does, it isn't much). This means that any time the N64 console were to lag (e.g. polygon team with a Charizard on the screen), the iQue plays without lag. Also, the time between matches where the announcer is saying the next stage is faster on the iQue as well due to less lag. Given the amount of lag that is produced in a run is not easy to calculate, and varies from run to run, it's nearly impossible to know by how much time exactly the iQue saves over the NA version. So the major difference here is that the iQue does not lag where the NA version does.

The summary of the above for those who are too lazy to read or zoned out halfway through:

EU has a slower framerate over NA (50 FPS vs 60 FPS)
Japanese has completely different gameplay as well as a completely different AI difficulty scaling.
iQue has no lag.

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There is another 'version' available, which is the Wii/Wii U Virtual Console. Although this version does not lag, the time between stages, when the announcer is announcing the next stage, is significantly longer due to being forced to watch it longer. For this reason, very few people run on Virtual Console. I left it out of the above comparisons because it is very rarely ran.

Also, 'Emulators' are sometimes used for the NA version. While the legality of emulators is another topic, I am mentioning this because of what I am about to say below. This series of posts assume emulators are legal.

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European runners are stuck with the worst version for running. The way they get around this is by emulating the NA version on an emulator. While this may not be an ideal solution, this is the only realistic solution an EU runner has. Therefore, most of our EU runners run on the NA version using an emulator.

The few Japanese runners we have run on the Japanese version exclusively. No real explanation needed.

NA runners are literally all over the world map. Most runners run on the NA console. A few run on an emulator. Some runners also run on the Japanese version. One or two additionally run on the iQue version.

NA runners who own the 64 console, and have a way to stream/record off of that, usually run on the N64 console. Some, who also own the Japanese version, run Japanese on the console as well. Runners who own an iQue can also run on the Chinese version.

Runners who do not own a console have no version to run on, and can only do runs on an emulator. Runners who only have a Wii or Wii U can run it on the Virtual Console, but due to the massive time loss of the Virtual Console, sometimes use an emulator as well.

The reason why I am explaining all of this is to demonstrate the availability of all the versions to each region. Although the legality of emulators is a completely different discussion, I am demonstrating here that some people (EU runners mostly) do not have an alternative method of doing runs comparable to the NA version. NA runners who do not have access to the N64 console version, or who are unable to stream or record from it, use an emulator as well.

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So the overall result is this:

The current “preferred/popular” method of running is on the NA N64 console. Those who are unable to do so will pick the version they are able to run, often resulting in the NA emulator. Japanese runners, and those who own the Japanese version, also do runs on the Japanese version. Runners who own an iQue also run on the Chinese version. That said, all NA runners who run on the Japanese and iQue versions also have the NA N64 console version available, and are running on the Japanese/iQue either because they prefer that version, or because they run on both (e.g. I run on both NA and Japanese).

Sorry for the very long post, but I do believe this post gives a very good introduction to people who are new to the discussion, as well as maybe a refresher for those who have discussed this before. I also made this post because several points I will make will relate to things I said in this post, most notably the accessibility of the different versions to the different regions. 2 months ago
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pikashy:
In this post, I will discuss how the version differences affect how runs are compared with each other. In my last post, I described the version differences. For more detail on that, see my last post. If you do not want to read all of this, you can skip this post too.

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As I said in my last post, each version has different advantages and disadvantages over each other. A vast majority of runners run on the NA version (whether it be on the N64 console or the emulator). Some of these runners also have access to the Japanese version, which they run as well. A couple also have an iQue, which they can do runs of as well. That said, all of these runners have access to either the NA console or emulator version. The only region that does not run on the NA version are the Japanese runners, who run on the Japanese version instead (makes sense, it’s their version).

Now comes the fun part: Comparing the times between versions. We have soo many versions being ran, and each have different advantages and disadvantages over each other. So now the question is: How do we compare each version with each other? The problem is, there is no right answer. Different opinions, different mindsets, and different biases make it very hard to come to an agreement.

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Here is an example. Let’s say a European runner got a time on the EU version of 8:00, while an NA runner got a time on the NA version of 7:00 (1 minute faster). The immediate reaction is to say that the NA runner got the faster time. However, let’s take a closer look.

WARNING: THIS PARAGRAPH HAS MATH!
The European run had a total time of 8:00, or 480 seconds. At 50 frames per second, this run took a total of 24000 frames. The NA version has 60 FPS, meaning a run of 24000 frames would have taken 400 seconds, or a time of 6:40. Therefore, an 8 minute run on the European version would be equivalent to a 6:40 run on the NA version. This is 20 seconds faster than the 7:00 NA run.

However, due to the slower frame rate, it is slightly easier to perform precise movements on the EU version than it is on the NA version. There’s also slightly more rest time between stages to compose yourself and mentally prepare yourself. There is no way to give these factors a time value. Should these factors be included in figuring out which version is faster?

So now let’s ask this question again. Which is faster: An 8:00 EU time, or a 7:00 NA time? As I said before, there is no right answer. Different opinions, different mindsets, and different biases make it very hard to come to an agreement.

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In the EU vs NA case, most Europeans run on the NA version using an emulator, and very very few runners actually use the EU version to run. I simply used these versions because the FPS difference makes it very easy to demonstrate how each version’s raw real time runs are not necessarily comparable as is, and that other factors may affect which run is truly faster.

Where this does cause more of a problem is when differences exist that cannot be compared as easily as a change in FPS:

The Japanese version has many differences in the gameplay itself. Characters jump slightly higher, the difficulty in the AI is different, there is less hitstun, and some moves have different effects (including some moves whose properties are completely changed, like Jigglypuff/Purin’s rest). It is impossible to give a time value to these changes. The result of this is that the faster (real time) version between NA and Japanese is entirely dependent on the difficulty being played, and the character being used.

The iQue has a major difference where it simply does not lag. While it would have been easier if it had a simple way of determining the time difference like the EU framerate example I gave, the problem is that every run has a different amount of lag. Different events in each run will cause varying amounts of lag. This makes calculating the time difference between versions nearly impossible.

The Virtual Console has a very easy to calculate time loss in the announcer part of the run. However, the Virtual Console also has significantly less lag. See the iQue in the paragraph above for the description on lag.

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So now with all of that said, is there a way we can compare runs from different versions with each other? Again, there is no right answer. Different opinions, different mindsets, and different biases make it very hard to come to an agreement. Some people believe that the real time is the determining factor, regardless of what the version differences, advantages, and disadvantages are. Others think that the version differences should not be a factor, and try to find a way to “equalize” the versions. However, as you can see above, “equalizing” the versions is next to impossible.

The last time this discussion was had, the majority agreement was that each version’s time was not comparable to each other, meaning each version had its own “leaderboard” so to speak. So in our EU vs NA example above, which is faster: an 8 min EU time or a 7 min NA time? Well, with this solution, the answer is neither. Each run is in its own leaderboard, and are not compared with each other. Obviously, this is not an ideal solution at all, but for a better understanding on why this is the case, consider this example:

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WARNING: MATH AHEAD! CUE IN HORROR MUSIC!
The DK Very Easy 5 Stock WR is on the NA N64 Console, with a time of 5:42. What happens when a European runner wants to try to beat that time? Well, 5:42 is 342 seconds. At 50 FPS, it gives a total of 17100 frames. Transferring this to the NA timing, 60 FPS gives 285 seconds, which is a final time of 4:45 on the NA version. This time would be impossible to achieve.

So if we were to compare runs using real time, a runner using the EU version could never take the WR for that category, as the differences between the two versions makes the time required for the WR unachievable in the EU version. And as previously stated, comparing times using other methods becomes nearly impossible when certain versions are being compared.

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So because of all of this, the decision was to make each version essentially have its own leaderboard, and that the times were not comparable to each other. 2 months ago
GhillieGuide likes this

pikashy:
In this post, I finally address the topic of the thread: whether or not iQue should be included in the leaderboard. My first post was about version differences, and my second post was about trying to compare runs between different versions, and why we decided each version was not comparable with each other, and essentially would have its own “leaderboard”.

The way the site is set up, you can select different versions that can appear on the site. When a run is submitted, the runner indicates what version was used, and that version is indicated next to the run. The downside: All runs on all versions are on the same leaderboard. In my second post, I explained why each version is considered to be on a different leaderboard. So now what happens when all the versions are on the same leaderboard? Well, we run into a bit of a problem…

As it stands, the most commonly ran version is the NA version. Japanese runners do not use our leaderboards, meaning almost everyone runs, or has access to, the NA version, and almost every run submitted is on the NA version. So for this reason, using the NA version as the “standard” version seems fair to say, since basically everyone uses it. Therefore, the NA version is obviously going to be on the leaderboards.

Now here is a question: Since all the versions are not comparable to each other, and are essentially in separate “leaderboards”, how do we determine which versions are to be included on the same leaderboard?

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Let’s look at the EU version first. It’s a version slower than the NA version, and very few runners run on that version. Anyone who does run on that version usually switches over to running on the NA version using an emulator. I believe the only runs submitted on the European version are runs by new runners, with relatively slow times, that wouldn’t really compare to any of the top runs anyways (even taking FPS into consideration). So for this reason, including the EU version seems ‘ok’.

For the purposes of discussing the accessibility of the versions, EU runners have full access to the NA version through emulation, so the choice of EU runners to use the EU version is the runner’s choice.

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Now comes the Japanese version. This actually isn’t as simple as it sounds. With all the gameplay differences between the NA and Japanese versions, these games can be considered completely different games when speedran. The AI on very hard, for example, makes runs between the two versions completely incomparable. Japanese is currently on the leaderboards, but ideas of making the Japanese version a separate game entirely on the leaderboard has been brought up. Due to the massively low number of Japanese runs submitted, however, this isn’t a realistic option for the time being. This is also a separate discussion entirely, so I won’t discuss it further here, but it is something we may end up discussing in the future.

For the accessibility of the Japanese version, you can either buy a Japanese cart, or emulate it on an emulator. For a console run, you’ll have to buy the cartridge, making a small barrier for those who do not want to run on an emulator, but the cost isn’t too high (I’m guessing $40 or something). So accessibility is not a major problem for the Japanese version.

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And now, finally, the iQue.

The iQue is the fastest version to run. It completely out-classes every other version. The only version that can compete with it is the Japanese version on the Hardest difficulties, but considering the NA version is the most commonly ran version, it just simply out-classes the NA version. We have only one or two runners on the iQue version, who also own or have access to the NA version (this is not a factor for the iQue’s legality, it’s to show the NA version’s accessibility to the iQue runners).

As for the accessibility of the iQue, it’s very expensive to get ($200 I think). Very few people want to spend $200 on a game they already own just to save a couple of seconds on a speedrun (some may not even be able to afford it). This makes the barrier of using an iQue very high.

In my last post discussing comparing runs between two versions, I gave the example of DK Very Easy 5 Stock, where the WR is on the NA version, with a time of 5:42. I demonstrated how this run would be impossible to achieve on the EU version. The EU runner’s response would be to get the NA version on emulator, which is easily accessible (almost all European runners already run on an emulator), and try to beat it on that.

¤¤¤¤¤I was intending on saying the WR is 5:42, without specifying who has the WR, but as I’m typing this next section out, I feel I need to clarify that I am the one with the 5:42 time, and although the example in this next section does specifically fall on me, it could just as easily be anyone else who has a WR in any other category (e.g. Falcon Very Easy 5 Stock, for example). I am using DK VE 5 as the example, as it is the fastest completion of any difficulty/character, and the fastest iQue time is 5:43, only a second slower than my time. I am also trying to be as unbiased as I can when writing this next section, but given the situation, I feel I need to clarify that so that if people feel it is biased in any way, they can understand why that is the case.¤¤¤¤¤

Now let’s look at it from the NA vs iQue perspective. The 5:42 NA time is a very very VERY optimized run. There is very little improvement that can be done. Let’s say an iQue run gets a time of 5:35. How does an NA runner respond? 5:35 is probably a TAS only time for the NA version, which means that the runner cannot use the NA version to beat that time. The NA runner’s only option is to beat it using the iQue. Unlike the past example where the EU runner just emulated the NA version, the NA runner needs to drop $200 for a console he’s buying on a game he already owns, just to save a few seconds on a run. As I said previously, not everyone has $200 they can just drop, and even then, very few people would want to drop $200 only to save a few seconds.

So now we’ve re-established why the versions are not compared with each other. What does this all have to do with the leaderboard? Well, let’s say this iQue time of 5:35 was achieved, and was put on the leaderboard. What will the reaction be? Well, you could argue nothing, since all versions are different, and are not comparable to each other. However, the leaderboard shows this:

1st: 5:35 (iQue)
2nd: 5:42 (NA)

¤¤¤¤¤ This is when I realized I should specify I have the 5:42 time¤¤¤¤¤

How does this runner re-achieve 1st place on the leaderboard? Well, unless he drop $200 on an iQue, he can’t. This may make the runner lose all motivation to run the game entirely. Other runners with WRs may worry that once their WR’s are beaten by iQue times, they may face the same dilemma. Potential new runners coming into the game may see that the only way to get a WR is to drop $200, meaning they don’t want to run the game anymore. If another runner does choose to run on an iQue as well, now the situation just escalated even more.

¤¤¤¤¤
In my case, I would probably continue to run the game, as I just run the game for fun instead of going for WR, but not everyone thinks the same. Someone who sees a run they have no way of beating may quickly lose interest in the game entirely.
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I believe this is the main reason why the iQue is generally 'not liked' by most of the smash 64 speedrunning community. It’s seen as “pay to win” from people who run the game, and from the outsider looking in. It can result in people losing interest in the game altogether, maybe even before they started running it. It’s a large reason why it was excluded from the leaderboards the last time this discussion happened.

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¤¤¤¤¤The rest of this post is my personal opinion, which will inevitably include bias ¤¤¤¤¤

This is my biggest worry about the iQue. It was causing problems in other games, with this very situation causing massive conflict within those games. I was relieved that nobody was running on the iQue in this game, as we wouldn’t have to deal with those situations. As soon as someone said they were getting the iQue to try to run smash 64 a few years ago, this became a huge worry of mine. Given the skill level of the iQue runner, I wasn’t thinking what the outcome would be if this happens, but when it happens. I talked with a few OoT runners for their opinion on the iQue, and the split was clear. It’s something I’ve always worried about, and up until the day it happens, is something I will continue to worry about. Even if the iQue is not allowed on the leaderboard, if the 5:35 time is reached (or some time in some category with the same effect), the fact that an unachievable time has been done on the iQue will have the same outcome.

I used to run melee and brawl as well. However, emulators saved tons of time in melee by removing almost all load times and lag (30 seconds saved in a sub 3 minute run), making me lose interest in that game altogether. USB Loader saved even more time in brawl for the same reasons (brawl load times are so long, I saw a USB Loader runner start the first stage of a classic mode run race while I was still waiting for the stage to load… even through stream delay). I now only run Subspace Emissary because I love that mode too much. If I quit both of those games (minus SSE) because of the advantage emulators and USB loader had on that, I’m sure people will quit smash 64 because of the iQue if it becomes a problem. I love the game too much to quit it, but not everyone will have the same opinion, and with fewer people to run with, the less fun it will be for me.

I spent about 6 hours making this series of posts. 2 months ago
GhillieGuide likes this

GhillieGuide:
Thank you so much for this series of posts, this addressed all the points currently covered in this discussion and I know was not easy to compile and express clearly. It also clearly stated your position on the ruling and your reasons for holding that opinion. I really can't thank you enough for this Pikashy. I have a couple things to add, first of all I can confirm with shipping it costs someone in NA about $200 dollars to purchase an IQue Player with smash bros pre-loaded on it. Another thing I would add is that there is a possibility that running an EU cart on an NA console can cause the game to run faster(something that needs investigation). Another difference between the IQue and N64 is the controller itself, just EU may make some tricks easier due to framerate after using both controllers for speedruns I can say it's significantly more difficult to use due to the differences in the input gate. I am actually considering running on NA N64 because it would be easier for me to do the Master Hand strat consistently. Sometimes because a strat is easier on a specific version it may mean it's the "faster version" as it allows for better runner consistency, A good example of this is the Very Hard category, it's likely that fully optimized the IQue Player is fastest for this run but because of the AI changes Polygon team is much more consistently beaten and it's faster in RTAs by humans. This makes choosing the fastest version(even when you own most versions) difficult and testing is difficult, mostly I made decisions based on "theory-crafting" around how differences would affect outcomes.
Ultimately picking versions for smash 64 running is kinda like picking categories; you need to find the balance between speed and consistency.

My opinions on this matter are very scattered, ultimately my main goal atm is to grow the smash 64 running community and I appreciate the confusion provided by the version differences to new runners. I am really starting to lean towards having an NA N64 Leaderboard on speedrun.com, having a specific version(EMU US runs allowed but filtered as they are currently) would allow fostering of true competition and easy comparison. There are very few runners with japanese times that have submitted, and IIRC I am the only one with a record on japanese. The same thing can be said about EU runners, if it were explained I don't think they would have a problem removing their runs as they are not high on the list anyways. I believe restricting this leaderboard to one version(+EMU) and removing runs without videos would make this site a lot easier to manage and a lot more friendly to new runners. I would happily remove my japanese run from this site as it doesn't really mean anything in first place anyways. The active runners of the community are aware of who have done what good runs have been done, I will continue to experiment with different versions and document differences and maybe in the future we can create our own website where we can document the runs being done on all categories and accomodate for InGame timer runs and ILs/Bonus videos.

TL;DR Version of Opinion: Take the other versions off and only allow N64 US and EMU US runs on the leaderboard(with EMU runs filtered by default as currently setup)

If the decision is made to remove runs without videos and consolidate to US N64 I vow to complete runs of every category and submit them to the leaderboards.

I missed the detail you added about your genuine concern about my skill as a runner and access to the IQue player, I am truly flattered by this statement as I thought you were of the opinion I was the worst of the active runners at that time. I do plan on beating my time with the IQue player on DK 5 Stock Very Easy to the point it cannot be beaten on any official console other than IQue but will never put WR on a ssb64 speedrun video again. Ultimately the only real course of action is to ban it and other versions from these leaderboards AND as a community refer new runners to the fastest time achieved on an NA N64 as the world record. I can't see this resolving in any other manner and as I was one of the only vocal opponents of banning IQue entirely I can't see people opposing my proposal. I truly and honestly believe it's the best course of action for our community, people can run on whatever versions they want(I will likely do a lot of runs on other versions) but if we are going to give recognition to people who put in work it should be comparable to all other runs. 2 months ago

andypanther:
I was talking with Ghillie about this on his stream and since I am interested in running this game, I'll just leave my opinion here as well.

Currently, I'm in the situation that I only have a PAL cartridge. I will try runs on PAL, but I'll probably want to get an NTSC version later anyway. Now whenever I decide to get an NTSC cart, I usually get the Japanese version, since those are significantly cheaper on Ebay, compared to US NTSC. I'm sure every European runner can tell you that.

Personally, I don't care at all about times set on other versions than the one I run. When I see a leaderboard with many different versions, I just use the region variable to see what is the fastest time on my version. But I'm aware that many people don't have this attitude. Instead, they're all about having the fastest time possible. If the fastest time is an obscure version they're not willing to get, they will instead try to arbitrarily remove that version from the leaderboard, so they can have the illusion of the fastest time. This is a very common problem on this site.

Two games I run, including Star Wars Racer where I'm a mod, use subcategories to deal with this. Each version is a subcategory, with the most popular one being shown by default. Essentially, this is the same as the standard region variable, but it seems to be more accepted by the majority of people and can stop discussions about versions.

TL;DR, my advice for dealing with versions: Use subcategories! 1 month ago

InprisonedShadow:
having sub categories would probably cause over flooding 1 month ago

pikashy:
We are currently in the process of remaking the leaderboards, so this is something we can look into right now on there. I'll add those categories in to see what it looks like for now, and we can decide if we like it or not.

Now's the time for any suggestions like this, because we can easily make any changes we want. Once we add all the times, some changes may be harder to make. 1 month ago
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andypanther:
You shouldn't worry too much about the effort of changing the structure of the leaderboard later on. If it would be very tedious, you could always ask a site admin to help you out, they can move around stuff much faster.
GhillieGuide likes this

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: Smash 64 Leaderboard Changes by Pikashy 2 months ago

OP: Given we currently have 3 different threads about this, I'm going to condense what I believe to be the group consensus on what should be done to the leaderboards.

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LEADERBOARD CATEGORY LAYOUT
Main Category: Difficulty/Stock
Secondary Category: Character

VERSION ACCEPTED: NA N64 Console ONLY. Emulator also accepted, but unselected by default (can be toggled by the user)

VIDEO REQUIREMENT: Runs in the top 3 require video evidence. Otherwise, runs outside the top 3 do not require video.

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Is everyone in agreement with this? If so, then I will ask to have a new game created so we can transfer everything over (we will have to make a new game, so links to the leaderboard will have to be updated). I'm planning on using the shorthand ssb (currently ssb64). If anyone has any disagreements or concerns, please say them now. If you agree with this and are ready to change it, let me know, and I'll get this started. 2 months ago
InprisonedShadow, ÖrsÖns and GhillieGuide like this

Replies

GhillieGuide:
I am in full support of each of these changes, and I am ready anytime we are ready. I would also like to apply for a moderator position on the new leaderboards to help with verifying runs. 2 months ago

pikashy:
I actually completely forgot that mods were a thing.

I think the best people for mods would be Ghillie, Shadow, and I, as we are the the most active members of the community, either doing runs, discussing the game, or just generally supporting other runners. If anyone has any other opinions on this, post it here and we can figure out who the best mod team would be. 2 months ago

GhillieGuide:
I have advertised this thread on my twitter and anyone who cares will have seen this by friday. IMO we could start this process as early as saturday given noone objects, if there is any help I can be in this process let me know. The only reason I wasn't a mod in the first place was due to drama over IQue/Versions, that being said I think I am a great candidate for mod as I will soon have all versions and can identify overclocked n64s very quickly. 2 months ago

pikashy:
I sent the request for the new game, so I guess we are now waiting for that.

Assuming it goes through, I think we should test out the layout with 'created' runs (e.g. 10 min dk ve run, 3:33 Fox Normal 3 stock run, etc) just to make sure the leaderboard works as we want it to. That way, we can make sure the leaderboard is set up how we want it to be. We'll obviously remove these runs when we transfer over actual runs. 2 months ago

GhillieGuide:
ya please let me know/ send me a link as I can help with organization/run transfers 2 months ago

pikashy:
I still have not gotten a response yet, nor does it look like it has gone through yet. It did say it may take a few days, but I thought I'd mention nothing's happened yet. 1 month ago

pikashy:
As you can tell by the game name, we just got the new game page. It can be found here: http://www.speedrun.com/ssb64

If it looks familiar, it is because this game is now under "ssb64old". I was going to try to make the new one "ssb", but that has already been taken by Simpson's Skateboarding or something. 1 month ago

pikashy:
Alright guys, I submitted 'test' runs to the leaderboards to get an idea of what it would look like. It seems the individual character table shows the top run for that difficulty/character category, while clicking a square/cell brings up all the runs for that category. The long categories are set up similar to the last leaderboard.

What are your guys's thoughts on this?

Also, is there anything on there that you think needs to be improved or fixed? 1 month ago

bluewiregaming:
Love the additions/amendments! Will this forum be moved as well? 1 month ago

pikashy:
That is something we can ask when the leaderboard is fully functional.

If anyone has any other suggestions on additions or changes, say them here as soon as you can. Otherwise, if nobody says anything, I guess we're good to start transferring all the runs over. 1 month ago

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: We are good to transfer runs by pikashy 1 month ago

OP: As the title says, we are good to start transferring runs over to the new leaderboards. I have already transferred all of my runs over. New leaderboard can be found here: http://www.speedrun.com/ssb64

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

Thread Title: New Leaderboard by pikashy 1 month ago

OP: Unless anyone has any other suggestions, we're good to start transferring runs over to the new leaderboards.

Replies

GhillieGuide:
Does this mean runs will need to be re-submitted by runners who submitted to this version of the leaderboards? I imagine this is the case but it needs to be said outright if so. 1 month ago

pikashy:
Runners can re-submit their runs if they wish to do so, but I think we can submit their runs for them if they don't want to do it themselves. I myself have about 40 runs to re-submit... 1 month ago

GhillieGuide:
kk thanks for clairifying
one problem I see is that the rules specify only NA N64 even on the japanese categories
Also are we making the full game categories only able to be run on US? 1 month ago

pikashy:
I fixed the Japanese rule description. As far as the full games, that is something we can discuss. 1 month ago

pikashy:
Well, I think it's safe to say we're good to transfer runs. Everyone seems to be happy with the current layout, and the minor changes we need to do will be an easy fix (i.e. we don't need to transfer all runs). So that said, I'm going to start transfering my runs. 1 month ago

Madtaz64:
You might wanna transfer other people soon, a lot of people on these boards probably don't use speedrun.com that often. Also you might wanna request these boards be deleted so there's not duplicates and confusion. 1 month ago

GhillieGuide:
Frankly I am not sure we should submit runs for other people to the new leaderboards. I agree we need to delete these leaderboards and move on, We will need to collect a list of usernames and contact them all directly. If they don't submit their own videos after being contacted with a message asking them to politely they don't care and I don't believe we should transfer them on their behalf without their knowledge. If the PMs include an option to have mods re-submit on their behalf I think that would likely help. Until we have compiled a list of usernames I don't think this leaderboards should be deleted. I am not sure if I will have time to PM them all but I will compile a list of usernames unless anyone is willing to compile then PM them through all available method politely like I did when this leaderboard was first established. 1 month ago

zewing:
You are the community moderators for super smash bros. for the nintendo 64, it is YOUR responsibility to maintain accurate community leaderboard for this game. If you guys have made the decision to create another leaderboard, then it is YOUR job to transfer the runs as well.

EDIT: may have sounded a bit harsh but sub categories make this done faster, just don't feel it's right to abandon runs that exist 1 month ago
tatticadanito likes this

 
  GhillieGuideGhillieGuide

That is the last leader board posted on the old speedrun.com leaderboard for ssb64, this isn't the best way to transfer forums but it will work. I am going to create new threads of relevant discussion with quotes from these old forums because some of them had a lot of work put into them(shoutouts to pikashy) and will continue to be topics to be discussed in the future.

 
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