Saints Row 2 Forum  /  Any % route improvements and discussion
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Haha that's great! I'm actually hoping to get a few runs in, myself, this weekend/next week as well. I tried to do a couple runs a couple weeks back but that tornado spawn screwed me for hours.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

So I noticed something about B1 First Impressions. Sellz, you mentioned that we usually fill that last bar of respect when the mission ends. It looks like it happens when we explore the next few areas on the way over to the last marker in the chopper.

 
  sellz90sellz90

Ah, I noticed that happened and that it was consistent but couldn’t work out why and what caused it.

Also in a stream the devs did they mentioned that they recalled finishing the game in around 4 hours so hopefully they show us something we are missing.

They genuinely showed an interest in speedruns hopefully they get on here and can answer some of the questions I have about the games.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Really??? That's killer!! Do you have a VoD of that?

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Just made a twitter to tweet at them. If they have better strats that might eliminate the Tornado....god, let it be so.

I'm gonna attempt runs again soon as well. I need to improve lol.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Interesting development since I've been having a BEAR of a time with this Tornado...

I decided to say "eff this" and mod a Tornado in with my PC game.

1) I think I've mentioned this before but the spawn chance is 10%. I kept thinking it was 5% but it's not, at least if xbox is the same as PC.
2) The chance of a (usable) Tornado spawning during the mission countdown is rarer. I don't know how much rarer it actually is but I'd go with "a decent amount." I put the Tornado spawn at 100% and got it every time (if a little late, I'm chalking that up to low priority loading from mem but I could be wrong). BUT when I tried the method I've been doing on xbox, I only got it 3 out of ~8-10 times or so. Twice, I got it right away. One time was too late to actually use. Twice, I got it IMMEDIATELY after the mission ended. One, no heli even after the mission ended. The other ones, I didn't wait for the mission to end to see if it spawned because I wasn't thinking that far ahead. It's much better to use the safe strats for that and go before the countdown. Something about that countdown messes with the spawn rate, I think. Maybe we can use that to our advantage though. If we know that it can negatively affect spawn rate. Maybe we can make it also positively affect it?

I have also been thinking about loading the save immediately after the jailbreak. In testing, it seems that the Tornado loads better during the countdown when loading from that. But with the few number of tests, it really could just come down to luck there. It's been still inconsistent.

In summary, I suppose, there's more research I'll do into this. I won't be doing the risky strats anymore unless I use a modded game because it seems to be ~50% or less that you'll get a usable Tornado.

I guess I'll also add that I might propose a modded Tornado category. I'd probably push to include this into any% still, though. Yes, it's modding the game but in a similar manner to how Banjo-Tooie using jinjo manipulation. It's just meant to eliminate frustrating RNG. It might be considered a slippery slope but...meh. I think as long as rules are clear, it's acceptable 😛. For the time being, though, I think an additional category will work.

I've actually gone ahead and uploaded a modded patch.vpp_pc to the resources here. This is for testing purposes or for modded Tornado runs. I'll include directions on how to use it in the description in resources.

 
  sellz90sellz90

The tornado is 10%? I would have guessed 5% lol but the lower rate of spawn during the countdown is something that I have also felt.

What we can guess about the spawn rate;
1. That listening to the taps seems to increase it (up to about 1 in 3)
2. The mission countdown seems to decrease it (way down)
3. Spinning is enough to rerolling the spawn

With that would you advise going back to tornado before Tee N Aye and give up the 20secish to be able to get a run going? The upsides seem to outweigh the downsides at this point.
Which I would be fine with as an issue I have is that by the time I have got a heli after an hour plus of tries my shooting is off and I lose more than that time in the shanties area anyway.

As for the new category “Modded Any% (Practice)” is what I would go for and I would stress it is only a practise category with no WR attached to it and put it in the misc categories. Would that be ok with you?

Also I’m thinking of putting up a “Questions for devs” thread in the general Saints row forum area in the hope they see it. I now have 15 questions, over the 4 games I run, in a doc waiting.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Yeah, sure, let's make a question thread. That would be really great to see, actually. And I hope they'd come by here!

I could go with that for a new category, but I'd have to say it'll be semantics at that point 😉 . If I beat my time there, it'll be a WR for that category regardless haha. It'll still be any% practice though and I think that adding it there DOES make it clearer. So I'd be fine with it.

 
  sellz90sellz90

About the Devs times We can hope but I just don't see how the tornado can be eliminated it is far too versatile and OPed. I mentally went though our route to see where the 30mins would come from.

Travelling wise, I’ve gone through all the possible mechanic and how they could be abused; save warps are used, taxis are used, activity fail warps are too slow, busted warps are too slow, death warps have little use unless we change the activities we do or mission order but then we would lose time doing that and OOB warps don’t work like in 3 and 4 and the one way I did find to manipulate them to work in our favour it was slow, relied on us have satchels and took us to the most useless place on the map.

Mission speed, Again there are not very many mission where we go particularly slow unless they have a way to interrupt autoscroller or timed event.

Mission order, Possible they have a better order but 10mins tops

Activities/ gain respect, if they have a way of getting money quick then that would be a possibility it would skip an 8-9min mission and another 6-7mins in activities and 2 and a half mins in phone taps. The activities we do I would say they are a combination of the most useful and quickest.

The thing I’m worried about is if they start with the respect needed it would be a vastly slower time than ours, if they, as they mentioned, used the in game time and they used the crowd control activities as they are both bugged and don’t count for the IGT or if they used the pre-release codes as they are technically not cheats and got the UFO which is basically a free tornado.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Yeah, due to them being testers there's some things they could have possibly placed in the game in order to speed things up, like you mention just having enough respect at the start. That, alone, would eliminate ~45-60 mins, I'd say. No need to farm respect, do Revelations, any activities, or buy cars.

Honestly, though, it might even come down to better gameplay. I know I can get sub 430 with simply better gameplay. Much beyond that, though, I'm not sure.

They made it sound like there was a lot we were missing though. I'm gonna say that in terms of our death warps and save warps and such, we're pretty much using everything the best we can. I'm disappointed that the OoB seems relatively useless as usable floors are hit or miss and you fall into infinity only to get warped the most useless of places.

I agree the Tornado is 100% necessary. It's waaaaay too valuable and shaves off minutes in most missions. It's worth whatever time it takes to acquire.

The mission route is optimized for the best of both of ours. It optimizes respect and cash flow and mission requirements/positioning. There are a couple I wish we could maneuver around but really can't think of a better way than how it currently is. I'm actually hoping Hurbaz doesn't use the current route because he might bring something else to the table, a new perspective on ordering missions. And it looks like he isn't so we'll see what happens there!

So I tweeted at them but if I don't hear back, I'll attend the Thursday stream and try to get their attention lol. We need answers!

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Gotta bitch for a juuuuuust a sec! I was about -6 at the museum pier. Then the game crashed. I was then at -2. -9 after waste not want not. Then -12 at Bad Trip. Then we got to Bank Error in Your Favor. I died and lose 2 mins because I jumped out of my Tornado at the bank and hit a light pole while deploying my parachute. No big deal, still -10. Then I died during wardill airport because of a rogue bastard with an RPG. -8. Then comes the Enemy of My Enemy. I softlocked but couldn't get out of it. I tried for a bit but decided to cut my losses and load the save. On my way back to the mission, I hit the water and died. Argghhhh. I finished the mission +30s. It SUCKS but I can work with that. Then comes the Siege. I died after parking my Tornado on top. Okay....I respawn inside but have to run all the way down and then back up. Wastes ~2 mins I'd say. And then I get almost to the top. Game crashes for the second time. It was almost hopeless anyway but.....come onnnnnnnnn. I wouldn't have gotten a spectacular PB but it would have been something. Comparing all those times, though, all the time I lost due to death and big mistakes, that's probably verging on 20 mins and that's not even 4 hours into the run.

Comparing it to what my PB currently is, we can get sub 430, I'm absolutely sure. We just have to have the game not crash and to not fuck up majorly haha.

 
  sellz90sellz90

Damn that sucks so much bad luck in one run was that console or PC? On the bright side you know my combined route works well. Sub 4:30 is very much possible I have a run 27secs off 4:30 and I forgot to not talk to the receptionist during Assault on Precinct 31 which is a stupid 30secs lost. When I come back round to running Any%, hopefully we will have the Tornado spawn figured out by then, I should be able to get Sub 4:30 then it is a matter of going back through each mission to find seconds here and there to see how low we can get it.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

I was on the 360 last night. Good to see you were so close! My plan for the next few days is that today, I'm gonna take it easy and do a little practicing cause I woke up feeling like butt and still have to work all day. Then tomorrow, more runs for that sub 430. I'm actually thinking my 360 may have overheated or something because of its placement so I'm gonna reposition it tonight as well. It failed at regular enough intervals, about 2 hours in each time.

I was also thinking about the Tornado spawn again and why it has trouble spawning might have to do with the fact that we have notoriety as well. Not police notoriety but Brotherhood. It could possibly be that in and of itself or that the Brotherhood pull up the police station and get the attention of the cops. Not really sure if this is it but it's a possibility, IMO.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Another small improvement that I came up with impromptu during my run yesterday. When we kill Vogel at the end, one rocket takes him out. Not sure if this was known before but I had been killing him with an SMG. This probably shaved 5+ seconds off.

 
  sellz90sellz90

I was testing the possibility of using the barrier break to get out of the mall in US Rounds Square Shopping Centre. It is possible to do it and with some refinement it may be quicker, but I have doubts, I'll keep messing with it the issue is where you end up after falling OOB depends on where you bust through the wall. I need to find the right combination of where to do it that is close and put you in the correct place.

 
  BowlfishBowlfish

So I have read through these posts and I have played through the game many times, so I will start my speedrunning career with a game I love. I hope to be able to post my time within the next few days. If anyone is still active, I would love some advice from anyone who has a completed speed run.

 
  sellz90sellz90

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12EMUwQitIqr78VoAWtj0w2B7n2iY7GGew0B87XLsaTM/edit#heading=h.vjc5endvayen

and foxs' run are the best place to start. Hop on the discord if you want to ask any questions ill be happy to help out

 
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