Saints Row 2 Forum  /  Any % route improvements and discussion
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

It would just be nicer to do IF after the wiretaps, I think. I think I'm going to try and find another route but that might be the best shot we got to reroll. I'll spend a little bit today getting something together and maybe I'll have a different strat. It's good if nothing else. Might waste some time but we have to find what causes the reroll. Maybe it's even as simple as flying back and forth and we don't have to get out of the heli at all.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Holy crap...important note (I think). I tried for about an hour with NO luck. No matter what I tried, I couldn't get the tornado to load. Then I removed all xbox patches and tried again. First time, after doing the wiretaps, I got the tornado. I think this means that if you ever play on the xbox, make sure you have the patches removed.

Removing the patches will also make a few missions easier since enemy tornadoes won't fire missiles at you.

I'm hope that this was the cause because if it takes, on average, an hour to to get a tornado, this'll get annoying.

 
  sellz90sellz90

I removed the patches and got it on my first try as well I only tried it once, in my time comparison run, but I did get it first time as well so there may be some hope for the increased spawn. Other side effects I got from removing the patch were less frame rate issues on the water part of the jail break (hopefully The Enemy of my Enemy is also going to be improved it was basically a slide show making the mission 3 or so mins longer than it could be), the lack of missiles shot by Tornados as you mentioned and also there is less of a delay when get vehicles from my garage, sometime I would have to select the car 4 or 5 time before it was there, and them repairing all of the time rather just some of the time.

I played up to after completing fight club and the run itself was a pretty good run could maybe get 2 or 3mins quicker, without route improvements just on playing skill. Comparing it to the route I use for my 5:31 IGT PB it was 2mins faster but I have 3 more levels of respect than at the same point and the rewards are better with The Tornado saved, upgraded sprint and unlimited Kobra’s instead of no saved heli, would be waiting for the oppressor in 4 or so missions time, no sprint upgrade and unlimited Gal’s.

One issue I ran into was during Fuzz between each level and with each gun request from the camera man the Tornado’s mini gun and missile would stop working I found that continuously shooting the mini gun as soon as I finished an objective would most of the time stop them disabling for gun requests but between levels I would have to land exit then enter to get them back working. Is this a normal issue and if so is there a better work around than what I have found?

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

You're probably right about confirmation bias. I just tried again. Takes 15 mins to get to the end of Down Payment for me. Definitely reset worthy if we don't get the tornado. My strategy that got me the tornado this time and last was to go immediately afterwards, before even checking at all, go in and do the wiretaps. I think you should be able to leave but I never left the room. Kill cops or wait. Then, once you have dex's number, go upstairs and it's there! At least...there's a better chance. That, I'm fairly sure of. I did it a few more times today. 2/4 times, it was there.

I was wondering if it'd take longer to do septic avenger or not. But then I decided even if it's quicker, the race is a better idea because you keep the cop car you get for appointed defender. It's a quick car and making sure you have it early would probably be a better idea, all around.

As for the Fuzz thing, I didn't have an issue with it. They cleared the guns on the tornado between levels but I just had to reselect them and it was alright.

As for parachuting, I've heard it was pretty difficult but I haven't tried, myself.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

This might be a long shot...but would the number of saves you have (either with or without a tornado) affect their spawn rate? I just deleted all my saves again and got one my first try. It's just a theory right now but...idk. It's possible?

 
  sellz90sellz90

Ok tried to use the old route and it became apparent very quickly that it will have to be completely redone to accommodate the Tornado. There will be a lot of save warping back to the crib to collect the Tornado and finding ways of keeping it from being destroyed. Also the taxi is going to be used pretty sparingly now.

Also I found that having flash bangs speeds up the mission Veteran Child so it could be worthwhile making the stop to buy then on the way to destroying the shanties. We never have opportunity to have grenades anyway so it is not like we are sacrificing that slot.

 
  sellz90sellz90

What I'm saying is that if we get them for the shanties it would be worth stocking up on them at that time as for that mission you could use the leftovers to save a bit of time. Rather than scrambling back and forth to pick them up, as they only let you take one at a time and you may have to move you position to avoid be affected by the flash bang yourself, you will already 3 or 4 of them on you and you can take a position to throw the next one while shooting him. It is only saving seconds but those seconds could be the justification to stop or not. If it is determined that there is a better way of destroying the shanties and the stop at the gun shop is not needed for that of course we can just use the spawned ones provided but if we are buying them anyway the few extras can save a bit of time in this mission aswell.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

So from the 3 or 4 tries I had this worked every time. I deleted all my saves and retried everything from the start until the end of Down Payment, saving my cop car from Appointed Defender. I took that over to the police station, went straight into the wiretaps, killed cops all the while, got dex's number, and went straight to the helipad. Every time the tornado was there, waiting.

This isn't 100% confirmed cause it's only been a handful of tries but it seems to definitely be reset-worthy. I'm gonna try some different things now, timing different activities with the tornado and trying to see just how useful it is in missions. Specifics need to get ironed out but this is definitely gonna happen now.

Also, just for completeness, this was the unpatched 360 version. No idea how it is on PC.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

I just did some different activities for timing.

Fuzz took me about 11 mins which I think will be an avg time. Probably sub 10, depending on RNG and practice.

Mayhem took me 13 mins, where 2 of those minutes, my tornado had its guns knocked off so I had to reload and continue. That time can definitely be improved, probably sub 10.

Insurance Fraud (6 levels) (highway strat) took 16 mins. This could clearly be improved since I've already had about 13 mins.

Insurance Fraud (6 levels) (airport strats) took 19 mins. This was a clear cut case of bad RNG. I got to lvl 4 and then nothing spawned. No helis, no jets. I got screwed and had to reload.

Comparing the 2 strats, I think the airport one is more heavily RNG based. You can easily lose minutes, either because nothing spawns or because you have to go far out of your way. The Factories one, however, is still RNG based but they're in smaller increments. It's generally safer because you have many chances to rack up points. But you won't consistently get 50-100k like you will at the airport. I think at the end of the day, it comes down to preference. You'll generally get the same time no matter which one you choose so I'd say to pick whatever's more comfortable.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Huh....idk. That'd be very nice if it'd work but I'd guess that if you couldn't get it in 60 tries, it's pretty unlikely. I could try later (either today or another day soon).

I want to try and route again, now that everything's changed. I'll probably spend the bulk of the next while doing this, finding which missions we want the tornado for and which ones we don't. I had Elysian Trailer Parks really soon, right after Burning Down the House, but with the tornado, it's SO easy. The majority of missions will probably be like this and we're going to have to plan what the easiest method is, regardless.

On the Insurance Fraud bit, I bet lvl 3 is all that's needed and that takes about 5 mins, tops. Going to lvl 6 is a much larger time sink and in the end, it's not going to save so much, especially since most of the time will be spent flying around, blowing crap up.

For the first little bit, my strat will be
SR1 - SR2 - races - SR3 - Tornado - IF - Revelations - Fuzz and/or Mayhem and then idk.

 
  sellz90sellz90

I'm doing the following as my start set up at the end I have 17 levels of respect and it is taking 1:07ish to complete.

S1 - S2 - races - S3 - Tornado – IF 3 level for just under 3 respect levels then save warp - SR4 - Samedi 1will end with 3 respect from kill streaks in the heli - Revelations - Fuzz - Fight club prison save warp

I have tried the first 3 to 5 missions of each of the 3 story branches just getting a feel for how they may work with the Tornado and basically 90% of missions are going to use the tornado in some way. It is pretty much a case of if the mission lets you it is properly the best way. There is also an additional benefit when combined with the style bonus you get a lot of respect from streaks, such as gang cars destroyed, meaning it is easy to refill the respect bar just doing a mission and rather than getting 17 missions done from the original levels gained it will be more like 22 or so.

The first brotherhood mission did throw up an issue in that you need a 4 person vehicle to finish it but at the same time it is so far out the way that a heli is the best way to get there. We will need to time out if doing it in the oppressor with the ability to do the final part in a heli rather than a boat or car is quicker that flying there in a Tornado then using either the car or boat. There is also the option of waiting until riot control (the 8th samedi missions) as the start of that is close as well so it would be a natural move to go there after with the saints stronghold, that starts and finishes next to brotherhood 1, being before them but then you’re left with the brotherhood arch being behind the other 2 which may prevent possible strings of missions that fit together well.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

I just did the first few missions/activities. I figured this is a pretty good route right now for reasons I'll explain.

S1
S2
races
S3 (on the way down, pick up flash bangs)
Tornado
IF (3 levels) - save warp
Revelations (doesn't matter if swapped with SR4) - save warp
SR4 (start and end are the same)
Samedi 1 with Tornado - after, fly towards Foreign Power
Foreign Power, buy car - fly to next activity
Ultor Dome Fight Club - fly to next
Prison Fight Club - save warp
Fuzz (to get Kobra)
Pick up Kobra

The reason I do it this way is that Samedi 1- FP - FC1 - FC2 is a pretty good string using the tornado. Then, Fuzz gets the kobra and it's close so it's important to do before other missions.

Idk what'll be best to go from here but this gives a pretty good starting point, imo. I also have about 26x respect. I ended with a time of ~1:25 but that's with a super terrible Fuzz (2 restarts) and with taking everything generally slow.

Let me know what you think about my route?

 
  sellz90sellz90

I personally get my style rank from the cycle shop just down the road from the end of Revelations. I get the tag run up the stairs grab a random car drive just around the corner buy the 2 bikes that are 15k each then save warp after.

The Oppressor is the reward for the 3rd Samedi mission so it is also possible to just rush it if it is needed. Samedi 1 can use the tornado and keep it after, Samedi 2 it is used to fly to the prison but lost as you need to take the Oppressor and the 3rd it can’t be used for and Samedi 2 ends down the road from its start point so the Samedi strand we are good.

Ronin 1 the Tornado is use to travel to the casino but lost as the truck is driven at the end, Ronin 2 it is not used as you have to use the car picked up, Ronin 3 Tornado is used but may be faster to just use the bike, I am yet to time it, Ronin 4 it can’t be used.

Brotherhood 1 is where the Oppressor will properly have to be used first and that may be saved until we unlock Samedi 8 as the start point is near.

Another thing to note is that off the 17 original respect levels at the level 6 boost I managed to do 25 missions or stronghold leaving 24 missions or strongholds left. If we are smart and find ways to upgrade style even more at good points we may be able to stretch out the 26 respect levels gained from FAR start route all the way until the completion of the 3 rival gang arches.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

I feel like getting the respect from the cycle shop wouldn't work as well. It's a little RNG based since you have to steal a car and things can always go wrong. Taking the heli from Samedi 1 to the FP and then to UDFC is a sure-fire way to string them and probably takes only a little longer than it'd take to get to the UDFC by any other means. And then, use the Tornado to get to the PFC, it's "close by" and we already have the tornado in our possession.

I think with the respect we have, we'll make it all the way to the demo derby, where we load up again, this time with hopefully even more of a style boost. It's my hope that this lasts till the end.

I also tested getting a car from FP during SR4, before we do Carlos' part but that doesn't work nearly as well as doing it after Samedi 1.

Thanks for the write up on those missions! I'm starting to try and find which ones to do in which order and it's proving to be quite complicated. Right now, I did Samedi 1 and after the activities, went to Ronin 1. That leaves us off near Ronin 2 but we also have the Suburbs Strip Club and Elysian Fields Strongholds. I know that EF stronghold will be better with a tornado. My guess is that we get this done, along with the Strip Club when doing Ronin 9, Rest In Peace, since we'll be at the cemetery and the tornado will probably be good for that too.

So I guess, leaving off from the Kobra, on my route, do Ronin 1, then Ronin 2, then I'll have to see from there. Maybe that'll be a good time for Samedi 2.

And that doesn't really tell us how to get to Rest In Peace but gives us kind of a string of missions in the middle.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Quick note. it was much faster using the Tornado in Ronin 3 but after Ronin 2, it was a haul to get the Tornado up there. I'm thinking of taking a taxi up to Samedi 2. The Tornado isn't THAT much faster that makes it worth it to save warp, drive to the helipad, grab it, land, and start the mission.

 
  sellz90sellz90

A possible route for the first part could be:

R1 in Tornado - R2 straight after can't use Tornado in anything other than first part anyway - back to crib to get Tornado - land tornado on the strip club roof do Suburbs Strip Club killing the last guys in Tornado then fly to next mission, R3 in Tornado - fly to S2 do first part in Tornado until you lose it - S3 after which is down the road and you won't be able to use Tornado in it anyway - back to the crib S4 in the Tornado.

Fits together quite well I left out Trailer Park as taking the satchel charges would lose our flash bangs which could speed up S4 but the satchel charges could be useful elsewhere. Also there is an opportunity to do that strong hold before R9 which starts at the cemetery.

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Ah okay. That's definitely a good start!

 
  sellz90sellz90

Finished the first draft of my route and did a run this afternoon finishing it in 5:12 IGT. The route went pretty well couple of things I will need to move about but all in all it worked out well. I did mess up a bit and as a result it left me 1 respect level short so had to improvise and do one level of Mayhem but I have a fixed figured out for that. When it is completely done I’ll post it in full.

One issue I did find is that using the Tornado for either of the first 2 waves of The Enemy of my Enemy will prevent the next wave from coming soft locking the game, though it is ok to use for the third wave.

Also has any one timed how long Mayhems take in the Tornado and if it is comparable time wise to Fight Club?

 
  FoxAndRavensFoxAndRavens

Mayhem is comparable but I found it might get a little iffy, depending on the areas your in. I had a hard time in Suburbs and flew low, hitting a lot of poles, and had to grab a tornado again. It could be fast with practice and knowing where the best areas are.

Good to hear the run went well besides some hiccups!

I probably won't be able to put in anymore work until after this week and maybe not for some time after that. The end of the semester approaches and I have some work to put in before classes end. I fully intend to do some more runs after (at the very latest) Dec. 15th.

 
  sellz90sellz90

Got a new PB there are still chunks of time to be gained from optimizing the mission strats so I expect the time could creep down 10+ mins. http://s1261.photobucket.com/user/sellz4/media/100_4856.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

I’m going to do some tests to see if the mayhem on the Nuclear Power Plant Island is a viable option. The Annihilator as a reward could be used for some nice time gains for the late game Brotherhood missions such as The Enemy of my Enemy and Showdown even the end of Rest in Peace in the Ronin strand and Salting the Earth...Again could possibly be made less annoying and quicker with it.

 
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