Forums  /  Castlevania series  /  Castlevania: Symphony of the Night  /  Annoucements and Discussion about the categories
  SakuraFreakSakuraFreak

[01/13/2016]

Still on-hold the leaderboards in speedrun.com due some lack of communication/will trough the community.

-Normal Categories are the principal runs from the game.
-Misc Categories will be for unpopular categories but that still have some flux.
-New categories can be added as the community have a consent.
-Any% & all bosses (Alucard and Richter) are not allowed with Saturn since is a completely different game, and no one runs on Saturn (at least for Alucard and Richter).
-Maria (psp) and Maria (saturn) are two different categories because her moveset is completely different in Dracula Chronicles.
-official Saturn console and emulator are in different categories due load times. Categories will be merged as long as we have a frame count for the category.
-PSN version is allowed.

 
  3snow_p7im3snow_p7im

Regarding Maria emu vs console reasoning, I don't think we should ever merge boards based on a framecount. There is about 5 seconds of frame lag if going by frame count alone. That means there is easily ~20 seconds loading time difference between console and emu. We should only merge if we have a precise loading time amount.

BTW im based my 5 second frame lag estimate based on my RTA 7:41 that was 7:36 by SDA framecount.

 
  SakuraFreakSakuraFreak

Regarding the lag...
The frames count is based on the video, and not on the game fps. With that is possible to differentiate even if the game has lag, making it fair to emulator and console players (Obviously has to record on same video configurations). With that we'll know how much time the console loses against the emulator, and we could increase 2~5 seconds of difference in emulator to console because depending the console revision is possible to read slower or other thing that can lag or be slower that didn't test in the frame counting.
I don't think anyone will to do a frame count in Maria category tho, since isn't much popular. Usually people do that for more competitive categories.

Discussing further about that, should be even possible merging psx and xbox categories for example, but would be a pain to test because there is a lot of ps2 revisions and emulators to test.... isn't a good idea since would take forever for that and xbox version has some glitches that the ps2 version doesn't have.

A good example for frame count also would be the Xenia (xbox360) emulator. In a near future I think we'll have this same issue i guess (if the emulator will be faster than console). Frame count for Xenia emulator would be a good idea imo (if faster than console), making the community more competitive.
Other things we would need to considerate anyway like IGT. if the xenia IGT is faster than console would have to be separated from console. That's just speculation tho, let's wait until that i guess.

 
  TalicZealotTalicZealot

Unless the xbox emu is faster than 360 all of this is completely pointless. PSX/EMU/PS2 is just different and not comparable in this way at all. Players just need to fucking deal with playing on a slow system. If Xenia is faster then that will have to get calculated and added as a handicap or separated entirely.

 
  SakuraFreakSakuraFreak

Yeah, that's why I mentioned as example. Still, SotN (x360) is installed on HDD anyway, and is like 80mb. Hardly will be any faster than console because that. But only the future may tell us I guess, since even game cartridge-based sometimes are faster on emulator, or even official "emulators", like Super Game Boy Color for SNES or WiiVC.

 
  NITM-TNITM-T

Hi there, I've some questions. Why are not allowed to use the luck and armor codes? Those codes are good for Speedruns and I think we have to use any Glitch to go as fast as possible. With the AXEARMOR code we can save time by using the Library Cards and against Doppleganger LV10.
Why don't have a category for 200.6%? Or maybe, that is a misc category, right?
For PSP versions are only allowed for Maria? Because we can use Long Wing Smash on Pal version, but I want to know about the USA version. I've a video with Alucard, but it's Glitched. Like, uses Glitches to Alucard warps to someplaces of the castles, you know?
And about Game End Glitch (ACE route) I've a video. Can I submit it? I saw that you guys accept videos made with the psjin emulator.

 
  TalicZealotTalicZealot

There are a million and one SOTN categories, we won't add them here unless they become active or there is a good reason for it.

 
  NITM-TNITM-T

Yes, you're right. That I asked because I've done almost everything about SotN Speedruns. Anyway, thanks for reply! I'll submit for the Any% and ACE categories soon for you guys see if is possible to Leaderboards just because it's the only ones that are allowed by the rules here.

 
  nathan7878

my opinion on ACE is I want to see the game beaten on its normal intended basic mode "Alucard mode". Then go from start to credits as fast as possible... Luck mode and Axe Armor mode are technically extras, which is why I have come to not like them for ACE and why I think most speed runners probably don't run those modes even non ace.

I stopped my ace testing for acouple weeks because someone had been trying to hack into my laptop I use for testing, and it had me really paranoid for awhile. Maybe it was Sony scared that I might find a way to use the total control glitch for evil... lol jk

but I was still able to do some SOTN ace testing on PlayStation TV/Vita and I have determined that it
is horrible for ace, you have to be so accurate on the 23 second timing part that is makes it super hard to do the ace run.

The Emulator that PlayStation 3 uses is the best hands down, I know that now. I don't have the PS3 that I was using for testing anymore, so I will probably take back the PlayStation TV and just end up buying a PS3 from the store, hopefully soon.

With the new arbitrary code I made for the end of the run, and how well ace works on PS3, anyone that has a PS3 should be able to do the credits warp pretty easily.

That really is my main goal, make ace as easy to do as possible, so hopefully one day someone can pull it off live at AGDQ or another speed running event.

Oh, and I know when we get to that point people will be doing ace runs on replay mode because no one really wants to watch the opening credits every time. So the way we can do that is by just creating a new memory card, do 1 non replay mode ace run... then you will have a cleared save file for the next replay runs.

Once the memory card is full of ace replay runs you can just transfer your 1 non replay run onto a new memory card and then do more replay runs (you can not just delete the saves off the memory card once it is full because the save glitch can still access that information you deleted and it can cause problems, so always use a fresh save file.)

When it comes to using emulators for official ace runs I am still a bit conflicted... especially on PSXJIN since
the emulator is not very accurate, like it may let the glitch work where it would fail on a real console (kinda like what happened when I was using PSXFIN and doing runs). Bizhawk is the most accurate emulator for ace, but it is so accurate that just like the PlayStation TV's emulator it makes the ace glitch harder to do.

 
  TalicZealotTalicZealot

Biz has weird issues with sotn. It doesn't sync audio correctly so you lose 1 second every minute. Then the menu delay seems odd, more like ps3.

 
  nathan7878

Then that is just another reason why we should probably only use real consoles for official ace runs.

 
  TalicZealotTalicZealot

In a perfect world we would only use consoles for everything, that would avoid a lot of weird stuff. Unfortunately that can't always be the case. I would say that if it is an objectively verifiable way to do the ace as it would be done in non-replay mode and on console its fine as a run. If it is not verifiable then its a problem.

 
  nathan7878

Have you ever used the XEBRA ps emulator?
I used it once and it seemed pretty accurate for ace, I would have to double check though... but
that could be another option besides bizhawk.

 
  Amber24Amber24

Anyone ever have any luck using a ps3 controller with the emulator Yabause? At best mine will only map half the buttons and only one direction in reverse on the dpad.

 
  TalicZealotTalicZealot

I don't know about that, but I would highly recommend that you use BizHawk instead of Yabause.

 
  HouselessGamerHouselessGamer

I only use ePSXe sorry, can't help about the Yabause problem

 
  NITM-TNITM-T

(Google Translator)
Well, well, look what we have here. My time on Any% category is: 18:08, TalicZealot's 18:14. So, you guys still thinks that I used TAS? Of course not. Just 6 seconds. In his video with 18:29, I told him if he use the Wolf Glitch, the time would be better since he knows how to do a good KAE with Tetra Spirit.
I just want to say that you all have to believe in yourselves by training for good and one day, things will happen.
I play SotN for Speedruns since 2005, I start play that game in 1998 to 1999 and my Saturn and PSP videos are the proof because there's no TAS for SSF and PPSSPP and my videos about ACE and Teamwork categories, also shows that proof because I use the Hard Reset and there is a BIG difference when that happens between real shit and rec shit on PSXJin.
When people watch TAS and see poor people like me that don't have money to get a good equipment to show all things on live videos, they starts to feel the "TAS symptoms" hahaha. But no, it's just a lot of nights shooting with Camtasia or Mirillis Action programs till I got a good result.
Anyway, enough this shit. Congrats for your video TalicZealot! If you do the WG with one shoot next time, will be great, man.

 
  TalicZealotTalicZealot

Prove it. Everybody else in the community streams their attempts live. A lot of the shit you do first try every single time in your 'runs' is completely arbitrary, yet immaculate. Are you claiming you're infinitely better than rom and DB?

 
  NITM-TNITM-T

Like I said, I'm poor and on Brazil goods equipments are expensive and in my city, they double the price.
I said: it's just a lot of nights shooting with Camtasia or Mirillis Action programs till I got a good result.
I just put the video on net when I see it's good. You guys puts a lot of videos on net to show how you are doing with time, but I just put there when I done. While I miss goods improvements, I reset, reset, till shit it's done, but my channel have the obsolete videos for those categories and such. I just learned new things and I shared like good players do to help everyone.
No I'm no better than anyone, I never said that, maybe my stupid English from a translator It is confusing you.
Today you made a new Record with WG with one shoot. You're always trying to do new Records (like everyone) and this it's how things works. Congrats, again!

 
  TalicZealotTalicZealot

Either your don't understand what a single segment RTA speedrun is supposed to be or you're full of shit. All bosses run: risky nbomb bufferless skip with risky shield dashing on stairs, first try bufferless library floor clip, first try risky bufferless Olrox's quarters glitch, first try optimal Olrox zip, using back+forward back movement(not allowed), using fire boomerangs in a risky way twice in a row, first try bufferless caverns floor clip,first try toadstool skip in a very weird way, second try bufferless catacombs wolf clip (hardest wolf clip in the game), first try bufferless library escape floor clip, risky relic skip, pausing the game exactly before drac dies. No my friend, you may be a great glitch hunter and know a shitton about sotn, but it would take a lot to convince me that your runs are single segment real time attacks.