With the recent SD2SNES update to 1.8.0 and its support for SuperFX, will there be a course of action for console runs? I am extremely interested in running it on console personally and I know this is bleeding-edge territory, so I wanted to posit my question and proposition. More specifically, I was wondering if submitted runs would be placed alongside the Classic or if it should be a separate category entirely.
Edit: I had already done preliminary testing on the console when I found out about the update a week after its release and can attest that it runs beautifully, so learning the routing and having a time to submit is my next course of action.
The only issue from a modding standpoint that I see is that the SNES Classic has an epilepsy filter and no emulation or actual hardware except the Classic itself can emulate it. During the Andross fight, it does affect lag so that's why it may never be a combined category. I wouldn't see why it wouldn't be an issue now to split up the two into separate categories like Star Fox 64 does, but of course, that's a mod's call.
From what I understand under the rules, the filter is not allowed to be on in any case and naturally that does not even exist on console or SD2SNES firmware options. I have plenty of waiting time, though, as I still need to produce a complete run to be analyzed and validated.
To clarify what I meant, the epilepsy filter is enabled by default on the SNES Classic so you can't disable it. We currently don't allow emulator or console runs besides the SNES Classic because of that.
I see what you mean now. I had to re-read the rule to remember that part I forgot about. I can see how console could not fit with that restriction since there is no equivalent filter. If console had its own category for anyone who wishes to run the game as originally intended during the game's development (such as myself), I would be more than happy to try putting a run into it.
As an update to the thread and my subject introduced here, I would like to more formally request the ability to submit runs performed on console. I have completed a run and wish to submit it. I am in the process of trying to make contact about this, but I also wanted to put a mention here, just in case this may be seen first.
Is there any chance that things may change to allow runs on console, possibly as separate leaderboards or with a timing adjustment to correct for the lack of the epilepsy filter? I'm now set up to make repro carts of this game & that would be my only way of running it.
With the leak of it being in the nintendo online that may be a distinct possibility, but we will see when that gets announced and released. As it stands, it's difficult to condone what would be runs on less than official or legal hardware.
"Less than official or legal hardware" definitely includes unofficial emulators, but I'd submit that a repro cart made the way I'm planning to do it would fall somewhere between the Classic and the "less than official or legal hardware" label. The parts I've got and the process I've set up will result in a clean dump of the Classic rom running on an authentic SHVC-1CA6B-01 cartridge PCB (formerly a Stunt Race FX - GSU chip runs at the same clock speed as the emulated GSU2 the Classic provides for the game). It's all authentic hardware, just... not the Classic. From a hardware/game perspective, the setup I'm going to use for these carts will be exactly the same as it would've been if Nintendo had released the game as originally planned once it was complete.
Notably, I'm not making a case for SD2SNES runs to be accepted. The SD2SNES FPGA implementation of the GSU1 and GSU2 is great, but it's not perfect. I'm suggesting only that a timing differential be figured out to account for the epilepsy filter not existing on authentic SNES hardware so that a standard can be developed for accepting runs made on cartridges running the game as it would've run had Nintendo not made the mistake of stashing the game in the vault for 20+ years.
edit: once I have a production process going and a couple prototypes finished, I'd be willing to provide one to the mods for testing.
You're correct on that, I should have been more clear.
Currently, we are only accepting runs on the SNES classic due to the lag induced by the epilepsy filter that it includes. Dumping to an sfx2 compatible (or overclocked sfx) game does not have that lag inducing filter. It is even possible to remove that filter within the SNES Classic by adding -fp0 to the global command line. Those runs would also not be accepted. That may change when it is released on Nintendo online.
I have been meaning to test the differences that the filter provides outside of the most obvious screens (those with any fire on them) by comparing the "natural state" (SNES Classic with filter), SNES Classic with -fp0 mod, sd2snes, and I also own a repro cart of the beta version. I have not done that yet as I needed to upgrade my hdmi capture setup, which I finally was able to do a few weeks ago. That said, regardless of those findings it'd be difficult to nail a specific time that playing without the filter would save on each run.
This is a weird and unique situation where the game was never officially released on the hardware that it was designed for, but was first officially released on a platform that cannot possibly be replicated via computer emulators & original SNES.
My hesitation is that if reproduction cartridges were the only accepted way to do runs of this game on an actual Super Nintendo, then it encourages the destruction of original Stunt Race FX cartridges, and similar FX based games. In terms of game preservation efforts, that is an awful thing to encourage/require in order to be competitive in speedruns of this, at least if the repro version of the game ended up to be the faster version of the game.
I like the idea of this game being runnable on an SD2SNES though, since it bypasses that concern of mine. However, I too have heard that as of right now, the SD2SNES's FX implementation is not 100% accurate yet. I have not personally tested this myself, but if you are aware of the state of that, I would be really interested in hearing where it stands currently, or if there were any plans to address it in the future by folks working on the SD2SNES.
Computer emulators have also been tough to justify adding because even when I was running the beta version on bizhawk (effectively the most accurate SNES emulator so far), I still noticed it had timing advantages compared to Oyster's runs on repro cart.
I think ultimately, a bunch of testing needs to be done in order to see where a repro cart & the sd2SNES stand time-wise compared to an SNES Classic. The only thing is that the epilepsy filter makes it really hard to get an accurate time conversion, as the game mainly uses it during situations that heavily use the fire texture, most of which are not pure autoscrolling sections. If anyone has any realistic solid ways of testing this, feel free to let me know.
There is also the probable release of the game on the Nintendo Switch's online service that would address the issue of the SNES Classic being difficult & expensive to acquire. That release would make running an official version of this game way more accessible to runners. Additionally, if that version does not have the epilepsy filter (or had it be optional), it would likely make that game the fastest official version of the game, and by extension, would make tests and comparisons SIGNIFICANTLY easier to get concrete timing data on.