I saw Tedious took record in every IL and it made me want to try a few out myself, however I ran into a bit of confusion when I read "The warp portal ending is only permitted in IL categories in which you can collect the final happiness object without completing the level." My only question is why on earth would you work it that way and force anyone who wants to run an IL to re-create a new savefile just to add in a cutscene at the end. Especially considering the fact that if you were to mark timing on ILs as when you lose control of spongebob the timing would be the same for both the first time through as well as all subsequent times as the cutscene would be completely meaningless whether it was present or not. Why make ILs so much harder when the game already allows it to be very simple. I believe the IL text should be changed to this: "Timing begins when you gain control of Spongebob and ends when you lose control of Spongebob. If a nontraditional completion method is used timing ends on the appearance of the level stats screen." I believe this would be fair at making all stages replayable for ILs without forcing a player to create a new file and still draw the line for stages that are unclear when the time of lost control would be. If you believe that this is not a good way to work things due to setting inonsistent standards across levels. Keep in mind that not all levels work the same way, and that attempting to set the same standards is impossible unless you want make ILs even worse then they already are. I don't see how the removal of the cutscene would affect the legitimacy of ILs in anyway considering there is no skill of mashing the A button just to skip something. I mostly only care about Tedious and Jaxler's opinions on this but I'd be open to hear anyone's thoughts.
Yeah I'd be open to allowing the warp portal ending on every level so you can just retry. It barely makes a difference. However since that ending only happens if you've completed the level, we would need to ban using teleport boxes in any level where you don't trigger the boxes before beating the level. The thing we never established either was whether or not you are allowed to use abilities gained later in these ILs (Spin & Cannon in Jellyfishing, Cannon in Kelp) to which I suggest we allow that.
I feel like a ban on later obtained powers would be pretty much pointless as they save almost nothing, and if it did that would simply add a different means of completing 2 levels at most for ILs, which I'd say is a small price to pay. As for Teleport Boxes that is a very easy rule to enforce as long as they have video proof.
Some things to consider/thoughts I have:
-As far as I know, collectibles such as non-level-ending happiness objects and concept art packs cannot be collected more than once per file, except for in Santa. This means that file resetting will be a constant for non-any% ILs (although the all levels cheat is a thing)
-As for determining when to stop time on an IL, the moment you touch the last happiness object or hit the blue warp seems to be the best way to call time.
-Mermelair and Santa seem to be weird cases. With the mermelair glitch, we have to determine if showing the results screen in that manner is acceptable for ILs, as opposed to walking to the end of the stage normally. For Santa, the results screen shows up in a weird fashion due to the screen blackout. The obvious solution would be to end on grabbing the end-level object, but its rather hard to tell when you hit the bottom object. Additionally, there's "avoid the top 2 objects" strat that could differentiate the any% and AHO ILs. I think a good middle ground would be when you hit "A" on the last text box for the additional happiness objects, but this is something we should discuss further.
-As for powers, the only level I would be opposed to having early powers on is Jellyfishing Any% IL. Doing that IL with spin would make execution on tiki jump and barrel jumps different, which would be incongruent with the way the level is run in all other categories, and to me it doesn't give an accurate reflection of how the level is played. For all the other levels, its either irrelevant or to cumbersome to set up. Jellyfishing is easy to setup naturally from the get go.
Nah, I don't really like the idea of doing that. I like to actually do the run. Plus the split times are different so I'd need to look back in a recording (which I do not have) to time it.
True.
Also, I'll edit the IL boards later once people have time to think and come up with a decision.
"once people have time to think and come up with a decision" The only active ToS players are Me Tedious Cosmeme and you. I propose we stop time when control of spongebob is lost, whether it by by object or portal unless an unconventional means of completion is used, in which case timing ends when the final cutscene is skipped. Also, later powers are disallowed for the ILs on Jellyfishing, Meeting Sandy, and Acting Tough With Patrick. And of course warp boxes are disallowed for any% IL runs. All other preexisting rules still apply. Any objections?
I think later power should be allowed for Meeting Sandy cause having the cannon doesn't do anything for you. Maybe Pretending to be Tough shouldn't be, cause you can hit the other enemies from the other side instead of having to walk. Apart from those considerations, I agree.
IDK why boss fights matter for ILs but IDK. Powers don't really matter i guess but idc.
As for Banette's point, I'd prefer hitting the object as the end point b/c it's a little bit clearer/easier to hit the timer with that parameter imo. It also seems to be better wording for people who are trying to get into ILs. Except for Santa ofc so we don't make Any% & AHO ILs the same thing
Okay, so what are we gonna put the final verdict as then, I'd like this to be decided because I actually like running the ILs but I want to know where the exact line is drawn. Me and Tedious seem to be in agreement on loss of control, so is it going to be when the Object touches you, when you touch the chest and lose control, where are we drawing the line? When we stop is the biggest thing I'm concerned about in this situation. I would like it to be as accessible and fair as possible but I would like a clear, concise end point.
As soon as you enter the object's grab range, control is lost. We should stop time there.
Exactly what I was thinking, there is an obvious que when that happens too, that weird cinematic view with the thin bars at the top and bottom appear right when you reach that point.
Edit: (Wrong, I just checked and that cinematic thing appears only on certain ones)
Yeah so i guess when the object starts moving. Im more so just make sure that vague wording is not present.
Another note, Santa is something we're have to going to talk about later. I would hope that you guys are cool with the "close last textbox idea for the AHO version of that IL.
That is completely fair, Santa is such a weird scenario for ILs that it's kind of hard to come to a verdict. I think that's the closest we'll get.
