SwedenThe arguments that I can think of against allowing it is that the ending cutscenes are different and that you don't actually kill the characters but assume they die in the explosion.
Simply put, would blowing the house up count as killing the other two characters after showing off the "secret hamster sequence"?
I think it makes sense, so I wouldn't mind allowing it. What do you guys think?
Sounds like more of a hassle than sollution to me, but I don't see why it would be illegal.
I would compare it to resetting a run and then going to the toilet for 5 minutes. You have the reset and then 5 minutes of cutscenes and then the starting frame.
Then again, if I went to the toilet for 5 minutes I would reset the game again just to get a nice looking vod 😅
Nice run!
BUT! Your video is missing a very important of the run. The initial start where you fade into control. I checked your vod and saw it so I can verify this (7:57.817), but remember for future submissions that it is important to have the start of the game in your video, otherwise it can get rejected.
Incredible! GG Congratulations! One of the most impressive performances I've ever seen!
What is the purpose of the double load used in any% when the first boss during chapter 4 appears?
/edit
I just realised it might stop the power up buildings from spawning? When does the game save, or is it glitched somehow so the game never loads a real save? It's a very confusing trick haha
I added this to the main rules today;
Please cancel the introduction before Dave moves around since it can be concidered an unfair advantage. If the introduction movement is taken advantage of we might have to decline the run or add penalty time.
We've got a run submitted for hamsteak% utilizing the 2-character glitch. Should we allow it or not?
In a speedrunning sence, it's faster to use the glitch and still achieve the original ruling. But looking at it from another perspective it might be against the initial idea of the category because you're not killing the 3rd character.
I'd love to hear your thoughs on this since you've recently been active @ZeroJanitor @noisepolice @ShesChardcore
I'm from Sweden so I grew up with PAL NES and the Swedish translated version of Shadowgate.
I think you should expect ~16% slower times with PAL versions of the game. If you want to see the difference you can start a game like Super Mario Bros 3 that has an ingame timer. Time how long it takes for the timer to run out on PAL, then redo the test on NTSC to see the difference.
I'm positive the NTSC version has the same kind of slowdowns, and they are most certainly caused by the sprite limitations of the NES. There are too many items present on the screen simultainously on these rooms which causes the lag.
If there is a demand for us to adress it I would suggest we change timing to an earlier point. If not I believe it's enough to just say it's not allowed to take advantage of the cutscene 🤷
Interesting. When I started running this I pretty much copied what everyone else was doing.
I think what made them time from the verb menu is that it's an easy point to frame count from when you cancel the cutscene asap. If people started using the cutscene to relocate Dave I believe it would be more proper to start timing from fade in rather than end of cutscene. Well.. that is just what the speedrunner in me thinks.
@sasquatchbill accomplish? I suggested to change the timing method. You've done that. If you have doubts, want to change the jumpless category, gather opinions or whatever, just start a new thread with that topic?
I asked you to talk with me in private if you had a personal issue with me. What are you trying to accomplish by explaining that you though I got upset because you renamed the category here? You're wrong, and you obviously don't get it. Ignoring messages is not "miscommunications". If you want to regain the credibility you've lost, you could start by actually lissening.
@sasquatchbill I never had any issues with the naming or ruling of the jumpless category. That is your own assumption. I would have reached the same conslusion. I even wrote "I guess calling it jumpless or no-jump makes more sense" to you.
The issue is that you didn't lissen. I repeatedly asked you to add other moderators, which would have made the whole process so much more efficient. But you were set on doing everything yourself. And I didn't mind that, even if you were incredible inefficient.
What I did mind, was when you started ignoring my messages. I posted the video showing the frame difference for a reason. I posted the runs to give you a chance to try it out. You could have made it so much simpler by just lissening to what I said and not push your own view on me. I took my time to explain what the differences between PAL and NTSC were. I were prepared to continue explaining things and let you do your thing, we could even have had a discussion about it. But that's when you didn't answer me for.. Well, you still havn't answered those messages.
It doesn't help when you, as the moderator, call me underhanded and immature. It doesn't help when you call this is silly and that nobody cares. It doesn't help when you say that the leaderboard will be set up for me. It doesn't help when you try to distort the issue as if had anything with "default%" to do.
@sasquatchbill are you talking about @duckfist and @JkLoser? If so, yes they both have speedrun accounts and if you wanted their opinion, it would be very simple to ask them. If you want the opinion of a new runner we could ask @overswarm. He recently won the big 20 event which featured the game. None of them are upset. If anyone is upset it is me and that is because of how you've treated me.
I can see how you think I might have contacted the mods early. But the 5 days you didn't answer my messages had been weeks for me. When I saw you logged on several times during that period without answering me, I felt ignored. It didn't help when you accepted the runs I posted to prove how the timing method was unsuitable for this speedrun. I won't deny I was influenced by negative feeling when I decided to take them down from here. But at that moment, having those runs up I deemed to not be properly verified, felt like a slap in the face.
If you have personal issues with me, please answer my private messages and write to me there. Here and now I ask as one of the active runners of this game that you consider changing the timing method to one that is much more suited for speedrunning this game, and also beeing the one I am using. If my opinion isn't enough, just tell me and I'll ask other people with experience in this game to contribute here.
I suggest changing the timing method to SDA timing, because it is easier to verify the character sprites apperance/dissapearance in comparison to the menu jump where the cliff position gives a variated number of frames.
It is also the method we've been using even before the board was requested.
@Liv Who are "they" though? If there is someone else I could talk with that didn't ignore me, who would that be? And what do you deem to be a selected period of time? I came here because I believed that more than a selected period of time had already passed.
I would be happy if there were more runners that I didn't know of out there, but to me it just sounds like made up arguments to further abuse his position and delay as much as possible..
I'm kind of tired of this situation and have now mostly given up on having a proper leaderboard here. I came here and requested to moderate the board because he isn't doing it properly. But since he isn't held up to what I believe is higher standards, and seen for what he has already done, he might just as well keep doing his thing.
@Liv I suggested to @sasquatchbill that he could add any other runner of the game as a moderator if he didn't trust me to do it. One of my suggestions included @duckfist , who agreed that it is silly to time from the menu. He is also on of the oldest runners of the game and started out by timing from character control to loss of it. I've urged @sasquatchbill to add NES runners as moderators because @sasquatchbill isn't a runner of NES himself. He was unaware of the difference between PAL/NTSC and accepted the runs I submitted without even verificating them. I even used the timing method that he has enforced to be consistent over plattforms.
Here's a quick example of how starting from the menu is different depending on your position, which adds even more weight to the argument.
But then again, I personally don't see how the will of a single mod overweights the norm of every NES Rod Land runner.
To quote a few rules from https://www.speedrun.com/moderationrules ;
"• The users moderating a game should represent the consensus of the players of the game. If it is evident that moderators are not representing consensus among runners, site staff may change moderation." Since he isn't a runner of the game, how is it then that his opinion overweights all the runners?
"• Moderators should typically speedrun the game, or at a minimum be heavily involved with the community." He's not a runner of the game, nor involved in the NES community.
"• Leaderboards should aim to have at least 3 active moderators if qualified people are available." Me, @JkLoser , @duckfist are three potentional candidates. There are plenty of active and experienced NES runner qualified to help out if necessary.
"• Moderators should make themselves available for feedback from runners for rules, categories, and board organization via the game's forum page, social media, or Discord." @sasquatchbill ignores PM:s on speedrun. He doesn't answer on twitter. His discord alias is without tag. Do I need to attempt persuading him through the forum page of a recently opened leaderboards with currently only 2 users?
I've been trying to get the leaderboards up for Rod Land for almost a month now, and I wouldn't have had this patience if I weren't passionate about speedrunning, and the game. I feel very sad that this had to happen right now. But if you tell me that @sasquatchbill is free to rule over the leaderboard exclusivly as he wish, since he is the series moderator, I will drop everything and stop persuading this at once.
