LivLiv
(edited: )

As someone who has submitted a full-game File 2 PS2 run, the rule just seems kind of... arbitrary? Resolution isn't always what will decide whether you can see a run accurately; frame drops, bitrate and so forth can make it just as difficult to see a run.

That said, similar to what I mentioned to Hurriboy through DM (Site moderation wise, we don't really like mandatory RTA timers used as a rule unless they are entirely necessary, such as for load-removal. We had to entirely shuffle a game's set of moderation up last week because they were strictly pushing this and rejecting runs for it, so I would advise against forcing this rule in particular), I feel this rule would kind of be in the same vein. Point being, if a run is submitted and it cannot be verified due to choppy footage, loss of sound, or other issues with the video, then it should be rejected specifically for those reasons, and there shouldn't just be a gatekeep on above 480p only or nothing. Stuff should be case-by-case, and you shouldn't be just putting a global rule that exempts all those using below 480p. It's kind of a bad way to go about a rule, in my opinion.

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  DrMaxtermindDrMaxtermind

Hey everyone I have gone ahead and read everything in the forums so far and besides some of the things that were said that were very disheartening to read as a community member, as they were just immature jabs for no reason, I can see that there is room for us to improve. Liv raises some good points and I am going to be a third set of eyes on the rules document as well that Silver and Hurri have looked at and see what I can offer to make them more clear overall. Let's try to put petty discourse behind us though and get this thing up and running. If anyone has any questions they can always reach out to me on discord as I am in several of the RE discords for running and modding. Have a great rest of the day!!

VoxgizerVoxgizer likes this. 
  TamsterTamster
(edited: )

Hello everyone, I've been reading a bit about the problem with the new rules, I did not want to comment on them, even, because I'm still playing the game, but one thing that I do know, and what should be taken into consideration, is to separate emulators from the consoles.

The biggest reason for this, obviously, is that there is a lot of discrepancy between these two platforms, and it seems unfair to leave them as they are, also, I think that to verify a run in emulators it would be better for the runner to show the window of the emulator, know what version you are using, and whether or not you are using cheats.

For those who play in ps2, as it is my case, since the use of HDLoader and Opl has been mentioned, I think it would be fair to ban them, since it increases the speed of the game.

For now it's all, I'd appreciate it if you take this into consideration, good evening.

 
  TamsterTamster

Ok, I already researched about the use of sticks.

It seems stupid to ban them, since usually the characters that are played with are Kevin / Yoko / Alyssa, since they are the fastest. Even if the sticks have more life or damage, it would be literally impossible to get WR with them, at least in file 1. Therefore if a person wants to use them, let them use them, since they will not achieve world record anyway. with them.

For those who play emulators, I think the most logical and fair, would be that everyone will use the same configuration, thus preventing runners from having slower load times than others. And show the emulator window with fps, the inputs (to prevent the use of turbo), and the tracker

Many leaderboards use these standards, and I think they are the most necessary when making a run.

Thank you.

 
  VoxgizerVoxgizer

I think I'm as caught up as I can be with this, so here's another two cents. I can only really comment on offline mode as that's what I run, personally. Aside from one thing.

Cheaters - Yep, give them a ban and be done with them. Unfortunately, anyone running with them is going to be under suspicion as well, whether they ran with the person cheating knowingly or not. It might not be fair to the people who weren't cheating, but that's the reality of it. I'm not saying ban the people who were with the cheater, unless you can prove they knowingly did but that would be impossible unless someone had a case of guilty conscience.

Stick figures - Like most everyone else, I have no idea why they were banned initially. I'm not aware of any significant impact they'd make on runs, so that ruling could get tossed out unless the older runners have some reason as to why.

Timers - I think using IGT is fine, as I don't trust a manual timer quite as much.

Visual/Audio Clarity - 480p was just something I threw out as an idea, really. It wasn't meant to gatekeep anyone in any way, so that's my fault for not clarifying more with it. I do agree, as long as you can see what's needed to be seen and hear what needs to be heard, then by all means.

For use of HDD in offline - It just speeds up load times, nothing else. I noticed no difference in how fast the inventory menu popped up without it versus with it. However, if I'm wrong, then I'd support making separate boards.

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  TamsterTamster

@Voxgizer You´re right in most of things. Regarding the HDD, indeed, there´s no difference if you use it or not on offline, but since online is timed via rta, it would be unfair to allowed it, cause not everyone has their ps2 modded.

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  TamsterTamster
(edited: )

Ok, Mr gold shoud not be banned! I mean even if he has more damage, he is useless in runs due to his speed, there´s no reason to do it. Only on Showdowns he is OP, and even so, he wasn´t banned on Showdowns.

Like i said, showing the window emulator should be required as a proof that the runner is running the game correctly, and showing the inputs should be required too.

Good day.

 
  TamsterTamster

Almost forgot, for the time in online runs, you can use the tracker on emu, i think it is the more accurate way to do it.

 
  VSilverwingsVSilverwings

I'm not sure where this issue over timers is coming from. The Tracker only works with IGT, Online has to be RTA doesn't it? This means a manual timer has to be used. All existing online times are submitted as RTA so to change it now is going to really throw a spanner in the works. Yet to really look at other people's runs but when I split using a manual timer I get it as close to the specified start/end times as possible. Start times are easy and most end times are too though some like DT are random. As a matter of principle I try and get as close as I can BUT if I split late and I'm a fraction over a whole second I submit it as a second quicker and state it in the comments and let the mods decide.

RTA is a thing and is commonplace in speedruns so this question over their accuracy and legitimacy is perplexing unless I'm missing the point.

As for Sticks, I voiced the opinion that I couldn't see a good reason other than the forum post about it to keep it, many had said scrap it so I updated the rules accordingly.

As for cheaters I feel we've had maybe one cheater and it was one time and part of a team. It just never felt worth it to ban any player that cheated, it was safer and simpler to just start fresh along with the rules update. However, people don't forget cheaters and so teams will naturally think twice or avoid cheaters and solo their runs would face extra scrutiny.

Still listening to PS2 recording (I agree it's more wording the rules) and segregation of EMU and PS2 though the latter I'm not warm to the idea right now.

 
  VSilverwingsVSilverwings

We're pretty much ready to finalise the rules with the devil being in the details only and no fundamental changes. I've been reviewing runs in advance which I feel are quick and easy to tick off to get the backlog down and give the mods with less time to focus on the others so expect to see runs verified over the coming days.

VoxgizerVoxgizer likes this. 
  TamsterTamster

Maybe the new rules make the old ones obsolete.

 
  TheNevsTheNevs

dunno why such a discussion but.... whats wrong with new rules? if everyone here know about online IGT being broken, then why we don't forget it?
i mean, with povs RTA and tracker cheaters need to find another way
if we use IGT for online RIP OB as a speedgame, i ll just loop doors until the scenario ends, my final IGT will be 30secs for Decisions Decisions PogChamp
you can say, the player who did all the tasks has the real IGT but with RTA everyone have the same time
(easy to spot splices)
also rip old runs man... new rules, gotta pb again

edershcedershc likes this. 
  TheNevsTheNevs

then whats the problem sir?

 
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