I tried only on Standard. I picked up the magnum, cause i guess there's no enough ammo for Nemmy 3, and don't forget about 3 hunters that you must kill.

You don’t need to kill Acid Nemmy if you can get him down to 80% 3 acids from carlos finishes the fight

There is a “legitimate” pistol in hospital with 33 bullets. That plus my combined 60+ from the Nemmy fight and you are going into nest with almost 100 bullets

With what’s in nest I estimate you will have about 150-200 pre Hunters that is plenty of ammo

Has anyone done a full pistol only run on standard with no shop items yet?

I did without shop items, but with magnum

I have ran through assisted with no upgrades or g18. However I believe upgrades should be allowed in standard as well as the g18. The 66 bullets from g18 and extended mag make a huge difference. You are already going out of your way too much(in my opinion) in standard for ammo.

Not allowing them on assisted is fine though, if thatll be a thing.

I wanted to get through the run deathless. I might throw a death in just to see how different that makes nest2 hunters.

Ok, i tried to do a run without the magnum, but i couldn't kill Nemmy 3. Carlos didn't want do anything with him. I made Nemmy into phase 2, when i was using those electro things, but they were useless, cause they only opened his heart. That's all - the run died.

@jakeenator "Has anyone done a full pistol only run on standard with no shop items yet?"

I saw a thumbnail run never tried myself i donno is there enough ammo

KNife only sounds more terrifying (i dont think a knife can be done on final boss)

The acid kill on Nemmy is very drawn out, the pattern is something like hide, hide, acid, hide, attack, hide, acid, hide, attack, hide, hide, attack, acid. I’ve only seen it once so there may be a few more rounds.

How much ammo are you going into the fight?

Ima stall on standard for now. Rather do multiple runs on assisted for fun instead of grinding out 1 standard run. Not worth the hassle atm.

Standard - No shop, pistol only, no magnum...

You'll have to pardon my rage in NEST 2, i tried hard to make the standard pistol work but the G19 nest 2 hunters is horrible. I really dont think being on low DA for hunters had any real baring on the progression since i had more ammo than required for acid nemmy and the dodges i had to do to open them up was just throwing my DA back up anyway. It is a horrible section though nonetheless.

It is a terrible time but I'm no speedrunner, I think the runners should be able to do this somewhere between 1hr-1hr10mins when optimal.

Watched up to sewers. Many handgun ammo locations I didnt know before up to that point. Thanks for that info. Also only use 2 shots up to that part(use knife for boxes and such, but may not need to now). So with that ammo saved and added ammo location I may try again.

Also I estimate a 1:10-1:20 time.

Good run. Some more spots for ammo I noted were skipped (could be viable as backup/extra):

• Behind Moon's. Turn right after exiting the double doors (same side of Moon's as the railway)
• Behind the waterfall in the sewers. Not sure if the Gamma behind you would get in the way though.
• A pickup is missed during Flame Nemmy.

Other notes:

• I like the tactic to shoot the barrel to two-for-one the gunpowder and upgrade. Smart.
• I swear Flame Nemmy was down as well! I was surprised you got whacked.
• DA manip for clock nemmy is interesting. Feels dirty, but interesting. 8 deaths is a lot to drop it though.
• Same goes for the DA manip with the hunters in the hospital.
• I didn't know you could falcon punch the generators.
• Yes, Jessie is better than Tifa. You're a man of good taste.

Nice job. You've proven its doable. I'm curious how necessary the DA manips are (or at least if it has to go all the way to 3k during Clock Nemmy).

I've always been super interested in Handgun Only, so I'm curious how this develops. If the DA drop (especially for Clock Nemmy) is necessary, I'm curious if its that much worse to just use the infinite handgun over purposefully dying at least 8 times during the run.

Very fun to watch though and I want to try it myself now. Good job again @WhamBam_TV

Thank you all for the effort put into this category. @WhamBam_TV I look forward to watching your run, route, and strategy. I wish I had more time to have figured it out myself, but I’m glad you did it! Now I’m motivated again. Thank you!

Also... is that voice @CursedToast? :) Can’t wait to try again now! Thanks @WhamBam_TV AGAIN! Motivated to give it a try!

@CursedToast I used to pick up the ammo behind moons but it can be kinda awkward to pick up. Behind the waterfall in sewers, I’m pretty sure this is a random box, so it could be a herb. Did I miss the ammo on flame Nemmy? I was sure I picked it up after the tank exploded.

CT Nemmy DA Manip - I have dropped it to 4 before and still had a quick fight, the issue with not dropping it to 3 is that you end the fight at 8DA, which just makes defend Jill and nest more frustrating, it also ends up costing you extra ammo that in a more optimised route you may need. I have tried a route where you don’t use any DA manip, I spent pretty much all my ammo which was like 250+ rounds then Jill cannot get past hunters/acid nemmy. Not only that but the fight itself took like 15-20mins. I don’t think the hunter deaths were necessary, I was just testing to see if it was quick enough to be viable, you’re most likely better off just trying to keep your DA low by just tanking a few hits, I think trying to have it at 6 for defend Jill is ideal, pretty sure zombies take 3 headshots at 7+DA, could be wrong tho so it might not be necessary at all if u can stay at 7. I have done defend Jill at 8 n ammo was really tight, though I did miss more in restrospect.

I don’t think having my DA below 7 going into acid nemmy made any difference. Fairly certain I had enough ammo as I never actually used the extension clip

@CoffeeDrinkingNoob Haha, please do, I wanna see this fully optimised.

Yeah, I could see the Moon's ammo being awkward. I thought the waterfall had a box + ammo, but I very well could be wrong. And there's two pickups of HG Ammo on Flame Nemmy, you grab one. I think that's probably the only one that's potentially viable since you run past it during the fight.

And yeah no -- forget 15-20 minute boss fights. And I completely spaced the Defend Jill section, so dropping the DA lower makes a lot of sense. Good work again on this, I look forward to seeing it optimized.

@CursedToast

This is the fight with 0 deaths, starting DA is 8. I don’t think it is possible to progress through nest 2 with this ammo. I pretty much hit every single ammo spot in this (minus pharmacy) but I also got all the good rng on crates so I had about 30rounds more than I should because of luck. Even if it is possible to complete a 0 deaths run, which unfortunately I think is entirely impossible, you are resetting your run if you miss one random ammo/gunpowder drop

Edit: it’s shotgun ammo behind the waterfall (Fairly certain this is static even if u don’t have the shotty) and the box is random, there’s a better chance for ammo though at high health on all the random boxes (I think I mentioned this at some point)

Edit 2: also in this to even have the ammo I had I was using a knife to break crates which idek is legal

Ahh, yeah it was the shotty ammo I was thinking of. I think you're 100% right, this route is impossible without DA manipulation. And a lot of it, which sucks.

You've done a great job though, you cross all the viable ammo spots and put a lot of work into this. I don't think anyone can question the viability of this being possible without manipulation.

With that said, and assuming this is going to be an Extension category in the first place, what are your guys' thoughts on using NG+ items, even if just the coins? All the DA manipulation (although proven quite clearly to be necessary) puts a bad taste in my mouth, strictly because of the real world time it eats up dying 8 times to CT Nemmy.

I'm kinda curious what this route would look like with the Assault Coins + Samurai Edge + no deaths (or very few). Infinite ammo definitely makes this category less interesting and is least preferable.

If using the handgun to stair skate knife only run is allowed. Breaking boxes with a knife in handgun only should be allowed. Especially with the lack of ammo.

@CursedToast I did a run with coins and samurai... definitely doable. Never saved it though. I was trying to figure it out with New Game only.