Forums  /  Resident Evil series  /  Resident Evil 3 (2020)  /  Framerate Cap for RE3R Discussion (Locked)
  xXAlucardxXAlucard

I've already seen comments that people are aware there ARE differences with lower FPS (such as input delay) which over the course of a run will affect the time (thinking about menu-ing here) and cause lower FPS runners to eventually be unable to compete when runs are optimized.

I'm surprised anyone can dismiss that kind of time-loss as "no big deal" and not be a good enough reason for an FPS cap. It will matter in the long run and force people to have higher FPS to be competitive.... especially when you consider how just "a few seconds" are currently the difference in several RE2R WR runs.

AndersonAnderson and frankvc19frankvc19 like this. 
  NuZNuZ

@DaravaeDaravae Not what im aware of more than the hitscan and ”grabscan” of the zeds are slower but you are to on less fps. Never herd of triggers and stuff. But the different is mby 0,0001 or something between 144 and 60 etc. Like all PC games higher fps is smoother (kinda self explaind). Higher fps gonna feel smoother but with Toasts RTA timer it cant be more even on the playing field for the runners. Mby if the rules say 1000hz pollingrate, exactly that Razer mouse and keyboard and so on but that is only stupid. Its 99,9999999% up to the runner anyway. Im betting that a 45-60fps runner gonna be on top atleast once 👍

Im hyped for the timer and LB to release

DaravaeDaravae and CursedToastCursedToast like this. 
  CursedToastCursedToast

@xXAlucardxXAlucard, when runs become just a few milliseconds off, we'll talk. Until then, you're throwing around what's used as an excuse crutch for a split imho (not saying you personally)

A talk of a split when there's a remover involved would be laughed at in such an overwhelming amount of speedrun communities. Why does the RE community tolerate people trying to hide away from certain runners, by pushing for category splits/or arbitrary caps? It's so strange to me. This is PC speedrunning. If you have a potato computer anywhere else in the speedrun world, you're told to get a better system. There's a basic barrier to entry. You need a system good enough to run the game optimally to speedrun the game optimally. What a concept.

It's so laughable this is such an issue in the first place, really. There's gotta be a point that you need to be told "get a better PC or you simply cannot compete for a WR". If you can achieve 60, you should be more than capable of getting a really good competitive time. Until only 120+ FPS runners are on top of you, you shouldn't be stressing anything except getting the hell good. This is PC, a very dynamic range of systems are involved, expecting everyone to cater to your weaker framerate is asinine and entitled.

How did the RE2 120/60 split work out for you guys pushing for that then? Where's all the vocal people for that at? I wanna see your WR's. You were so damn concerned then that your elite skills would put you behind 120. Surely all those really vocal people have close to top times, yeah? Or was it a way to hide from Orcho and other people that just play 120? I'm looking mostly at those that could probably run the 120 category just fine, but choose to run 60. If your PC is struggling that much to run this game, you might want to just look into getting a console going forward. It's definitely going to get even harder to run future games.

Whether you guys cap it at 120 (perfectly reasonable, just not 60 or a divide, please) or not, the arguments against basic PC speedrunning concepts are starting to annoy me too much, so I'm ducking out of the conversation with my piece said. I'll trust the community uses some common sense judgement and doesn't use crutch excuses, even if I don't like the outcome. I've done what I can to try to help ease the situation of a broken timer. That's what I care about 🙂

TrichaelManTrichaelMan, DECosmicDECosmic and 7 others like this. 
  RevHavocRevHavoc

I see a reason to cap at any framerate that the game doesn't support by default but I don't agree with it. Speedrunning using 3rd party programs on the main category (as a requirement) is more about pushing the numbers even further and in my opinion and not because it's better for players - it's just unnecessary.

About the "bad/good" computer thing... You don't see people complaining about not being able to run Super Mario 64 on better engines, so they can have higher framerate and less lag - to achieve higher levels of time. If they do complain, they are mostly ignored anyway.

As to my final opinion atm: I think the cap should be 60fps, as it is the maximum the game support. It doesn't require the best computer ever and even if you don't achieve 60, you won't be punished too hard by the cutscene diff (although might be punished by the input lag and other stuff) but that's how the game is. I'm just against using 3rd party programs as a standard way to speedrun.

 
  CursedToastCursedToast

^ You must not have ever run a game before that doesn't have an IGT and requires a tool like Livesplit

The game supporting capping at 60 isn't an excuse to force everyone to abide by it.

As already stated, you don't even need an external tool to cap the game framerate to 120, so...

 
  andrewlimandrewlim

Capping for PC into separate categories (60/120fps) just like in RE2R is a good idea imho.

But I hope PC runners will use IGT/final game screen as the official result instead of an external timer so they can standardize with console runs. There have been some amazing runs already and it would be a shame they were all negated because they used Capcom's IGT.

 
  TheNevsTheNevs

my idea was to cap to 120 but not to separate 60/120 again, just 120

grimpantsgrimpants likes this. 
  CursedToastCursedToast

Here's my opinion on this:
RTA with load removal. That means cutscenes run the timer, and yes, that's going to piss some people off. But look at the classic games, heck, even the remake of RE1. Time kept running even during cutscenes. Skipping cutscenes is a thing you just do.

Even if we capped at 60, and every runner ran at 60, this IGT is broken.
If I ran at 60, and Haze ran at 60, we're going to get completely different bleed totals throughout our run, even if we both ran a completely identical run with the same exact RNG.

So just capping at 60 isn't the solution. I really think, in my personal opinion, and even after spending 55+ hours on this script, that it really should just be actual load remover, and RTA should roll during cutscenes. And as much as I would like to use this script I've busted ass on, I think the cleanest way is just straight up RTA and remove the loads so somebody doesn't need to worry about SSD or HDD speeds.

I could even pause it on the pause menu, so you could get your barrings during a cutscene pause.

Whether you guys split 60/120, cap at this or that, I don't care. I just want it to be fair for everyone (especially a 60 FPSer vs a 60 FPSer, and raw IGT that's certainly not the case), and you're going to have disparity with this IGT. I think we can all agree its broken BS. It's just a matter of how we even the playing field that we need to agree on.

I will help where I can, its up to you guys what I do.

TrichaelManTrichaelMan, NuZNuZ and 3 others like this. 
  OrchlonOrchlon

Heads up mods, I saw a comment about your plans to split the consoles categories into enhanced and base consoles. However according to Digital Foundry's analysis, the X targets native 4k so despite being more powerful than the PS4 Pro will run worse, in fact it's barely better than the base consoles. If the split goes ahead then X runners will be left at a decent disadvantage.

Also regarding the "my PC can't hit 120fps" thing, this game runs better than RE2R, because some areas of the game have been scaled back because of console limitations still existing in the PC version. And the fact of the matter is I've seen the game hitting 120fps and running the game overall with framerates that are easily competitive on a GTX 960, that's a 5 year old GPU that was $200 at launch and isn't even worth $80 on the used market these days. 18 of the top 20 most common GPUs in the steam hardware survey can easily reach high framerates, out of all GPUs in the survey 2/3 of them can reach high enough framerates. If you have a 1060 and can't reach high framerates, then you're either CPU bottlenecked, or there's something wrong with your PC, maybe your streaming settings are too demanding. While streaming and speedrunning are very closely linked together, and the demands of streaming must be considered, if you have 9 scenes with 20 browser sources and you're trying to stream at x264 medium on a 4 core CPU, that's really on you. A decent quality stream with basic alerts with GPU encoding can be had for single digit CPU usages.

Hypothetically, barring regional limitations, a PC capable of streaming and running this game at a decent quality at high framerates can be had for around $500. For example, a 1600 AF for $100, 2x8GB 3600Mhz ram for $70, budget motherboard for $80, a new 1650 Super for $180 for the Turing encoder, if you look for used GPUs you can find more powerful options for cheaper, a cheap case for $30, a decent PSU for $50. This is only a little bit above what a new console would cost you.

Capping to 60fps would be catering to a vocal minority of runners, in fact I'd even say the trouble of implementing a load remover is an over engineered solution.

TrichaelManTrichaelMan, SutsithSutsith and 2 others like this. 
  DudleyDudley

Here's my thoughts on this:

Cap 120 FPS - This is good, it regulates some of the re engine oddities. Idgaf about 60 fps or whatever, do what you wish to split cats

Less is more - Either run IGT as is, or RTA w/ in-game pause (with load remover as well I guess but I agree with Orch that it isn't needed)

Mods are way overthinking this at the moment lol

 
  CursedToastCursedToast

I can only actually recall a couple of actual straight up loads where load removal would kick in, but load removal kicking in for pauses would really just be a compromise to those that usually use cutscenes for a quick stretch, really. Otherwise I would say to hell with it lol.

NuZNuZ and DudleyDudley like this. 
  DudleyDudley

RTA pause on in-game pause I think is the best way to go about that. Needed for streamers and everyone tbh. Life happens sometimes and when it does you may be on INSANE pace.

MrPopo333MrPopo333, MaterialBurstMaterialBurst and 2 others like this. 
  OrchlonOrchlon

Why not just remove the extra loads from IGT instead of RTA? It would result in a timer that works nearly identically to how RE2's works, which was a timer that everyone was happy with.

MaterialBurstMaterialBurst likes this. 
  CursedToastCursedToast

If you mean extra loads being the IGT bleed, that's going to fluctuate system to system, and the community would need to agree on a number. I could easily do that though. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, @OrchlonOrchlon

I can detect the framerate of the runner and on cutscenes reimburse runners based on what fps they're on, for example

 
  NuZNuZ

@OrchlonOrchlon Im not a coding geek but i think if i understand Toast right, the IGT is so broken that its different betwen systems not only fps. RTA with load remover should be the most even thing you can use. And i can play on my 60 monitor and the 144hz gaming monitor and still be as good runner. At your skillevel its not only fps and broken igt’ers that matters. Im not even close to your frame perfect button speed 🙂

 
  mondomantramondomantra

yeah im leaning towards nevs here. like honestly the 60/120 split was essential for re2 because the route and effectiveness of boss strats was predicated on knife damage, which was dependent on FPS. 120 knife could save you actual minutes in fights over 60 knife (like just look at the difference between bosses in 120 hardcore and 60 hardcore). I think a 60/120 split will be much less necessary because it does not affect route and strategy, which is a major defining aspect of how speedrun categories are delineated (knife only standard will be different than new game standard for example because the route and strategies are significantly different). I understand that fps affects IGT somewhat, but my point is that a different timing method would most likely solve this and not need a split.

I used to be a 60fps re2 runner before i ran 120 and this was back when the leaderboards were shared. I think the split was necessary because I could not do what the best 120 players were doing & trying to improve in a less popular and handicapped category was much more difficult and it wasn't fair to be on the same section of the leaderboards at the time. I also ended up upgrading to get much better performance and I do not regret that investment either. Point is I think being a 60fps runner would not be much less different than being a 120fps runner and for that reason does not deserve a different category. Also having a main fps strengthens competition. There were many amazing 60fps re2 runners I wish us 120fps could've competed with, like ingne, furreto, etc. and I think us all running with everyone else makes competition so much more diverse and interesting.

TheNevsTheNevs likes this. 
  OrchlonOrchlon

Yeah I mean the extraneous loads between cutscenes, but what do you mean agree to a number? Since it varies by system it would have to be dynamically removed, I assume the flags for the loads have been already found and the thing that would need to be changed is to subtract it from the IGT instead of RTA.

Also I think the game should definitely be capped because I just found out that the framerate determines how many laps he does in waste disposal nemmy, take a look

TrichaelManTrichaelMan, glurmoglurmo and 17 others like this. 
  TheNevsTheNevs

whens 10h edition of the 30fps video?

MartyGrothMartyGroth likes this. 
  NuZNuZ

@OrchlonOrchlon is that 2 different saves watched 2 times? I cant understand wy that should be determed by fps. More likley a rng nbr generated for eatch save. Yeah my english sucks but try again on a new save