Forums  /  Quest 64  /  OoB Routing Discussion
  kirkqkirkq

No more need to spam everyone's tweets, just use this thread.

Resources:
Combat FAQ: http://www.gamefaqs.com/n64/198386-quest-64/faqs/66316
Too hard Spirit Dupe route (assumes 4): http://pastebin.com/hL7Z6U1E
Old US version route: http://pastebin.com/MFhCKP4Z
Stats notes: http://pastebin.com/cYADBhXS

- Compression is fire level 19 to enable out of bounds.
- Exit is water level 19 to enable spirit duping

- If you are not doing save corruption, you need at least 7 water for healing to progress without dying.
- At least 8-10 water is preferable because of the massive HP gain on heals.
- Vampire's touch is fire level 32. Vampire's Touch heals (club damage + 7) / 4 rounded down.
- A spirit light route could MAYBE do 50 Earth 19 Fire. I'm not sure what the side effects are. Getting 24 19 by Zelse would be tricky if 2 Cull Hazard spirits were skipped with no duping.

Fire Ball LV3 is fire level 16

Solvaring Options:
15 Water
12 Wind (breadless)
16 Fire

Zelse Options:
24 Earth
?? Fire
?? Water + Spirit lights

Nepty Options:
36 Earth
?? Fire + Spirit Lights

Shilf Options:
36 Earth
??

Guilty:
- You need 32+ Defense to survive two close hits, which is 834 hits taken, which is about 360 more hits than i took in my run.
- 360 hits takes about 350 seconds or almost 6 minutes on blood jells. Skelebats might be slightly less.

Beigis:
??

Mammon:
- Avalanche speeds this up a ton.

Out of Bounds:
- I only tested a few things.
- I got OoB off the magma fish looking enemy in Boil Hole.
- Going OoB in Boil Hole saves literally like 12 minutes and skips Fargo.
- I could not manage to get OoB off any of the enemies in Baragoon Tunnel.

More early Spirits:
- It may be possible to cram duping/collecting spirits between Solvaring and Zelse to get 24-19-19 by Zelse for an OoB in Cull Hazard?
- List: Larapool Inn early, All Glencoe, possibly 1 after Solvaring with a modified exp route, All West Carmagh, All Windward Forest, others?

Other:
- I'll probably start by trimming down the Spirit Dupe route to 3 per dupe and then using that as a baseline for the OoB routing.
- Since Water and Fire are equivalent, an easy mode route for now would be 25 water, 50 earth, 19 fire, then OoB in boil hole.

Questions:
- How many spirit lights does save corruption give you?
- If you corrupt over the Earth Orb, does it mess up the boat to Limelin?
- Which areas can we OoB in reliably? Cull Hazard and Blue Cave would save a lot of time.
- Are there any areas OoB on the same map like the Fairy Fountains in Zelda Majora's Mask?

 
  chilichili

Save corruption gives you 150 spirit lights. You also must have a free space in your inventory for the Earth Orb.

 
  chilichili

Earth orb is not needed to go from Dondoran Flats -> West Carmagh, but the boat doesn't work backwards.

 
  squidtepigsquidtepig

Stupid Baragoon Tunnel with Ghost & Termant. I can get Ghost to clip but I can't get Brian to clip. However you can push Termant enemies through the wall and if you position Termant behind Ghost properly, then you can clip Ghost OoB.

 
  chilichili

Duping over water+earth orbs in limelin field allows you to return to dondoran flats, but once you goto west carmagh you can't return to dondoran flats since you don't have the earth orb

 
  chilichili

Can clip using Scarecrows in East Limelin

 
  squidtepigsquidtepig

So, The Blue Cave is actually completely loaded. Too bad that you can only Wall clip towards the end of the cave. Depending on what type of encounters when you reach the final stretch you can use the Scarecrow to clip and wall into exit loading zone saving maybe about 1 minute (depending on if Scarecrow decides to show up.)

 
  chilichili

Can't get into baragoon tunnel while OoB in east limelin. You can clip OoB in Dindrom dries and get into boil hole from OoB.

 
  squidtepigsquidtepig

Scarecrow will be the idea set up for OoB in Cull Hazzard, and Blue Cave (Final Stretch) Dindrom Dries and Boil Hole should be Magma Fish. Also, in the Dries I think Shamwood should be looked at because you can clip half of the Dries to get there and then return Spirit dupe + death warp back to the dries.

 
  JazzyChoi1991JazzyChoi1991

I guess the first step is figure out what we can do with OoB and Save Corruption before deciding on categories and stuff

 
  JazzyChoi1991JazzyChoi1991

I guess the first step is figure out what we can do with OoB and Save Corruption before deciding on categories and stuff

 
  chilichili

You can pick up spirits close enough to the OoB barrier, you cannot open chests (as expected) because they only open from the front.

 
  chilichili

You can pick up spirits close enough to the OoB barrier, you cannot open chests (as expected) because they only open from the front.

 
  squidtepigsquidtepig

OoB should be used in Any% and All Spirits. Save Corruption is Ehh for me.

 
  hoboX10hoboX10

Well like you all know I think save corruption should be used in any% also.

I want to repost my reasoning for why I think it is okay to include in any% here because I don't know how many of you read my pastebin/also I explained more in twitch chat.

I say it's okay because the save corruption is entirely self-contained within the run. A game like Skyward Sword has save corruption banned because it requires a separate file to be created and reach the end of the game on BEFOREHAND to the speedrun. In Quest, we create the corrupted file DURING the run, while you're being timed doing it.

My second reason is that it doesn't skip the entirety of the game, you still have to play the game through like normal runs require. This is also different compared to save corruptions like SS and Pokemon in the fact that they usually end the game within minutes. All Quest gives us is a bunch of healing items.

Again, if nobody agrees with me that's okay with me, I just want you all to really think about it before saying no. And like I said on twitter, if it isn't included in any%, I hope you guys learn it with me anyway because I think it would be a fun race category!

 
  hoboX10hoboX10

If anyone wants to save 2 seconds you can beat the game and when you start a new file without restarting the console you don't have to go into the pause menu to set text speed to fastest, the game will remember it from the previous run. Lol.

 
  kirkqkirkq

Responding to hoboX's points:

I agree that save corruption contained within the scope of the run is far less egregious than using a prepared file. Also note that if this was possible within the context of normal gameplay, it would certainly be allowed and tracked as such. Fundamentally and conceptually I feel that save corruption is almost hardware abuse. The limitations of an external hardware interface are being abused by power cycling during an operation where it is assumed the user is not insane enough to interrupt with the kill switch. Pretty much every TAS and to my knowledge most or all console runs that utilize save corruption label it as such.

I have no problem with tracking and performing save corruption runs. The question is should save corruption runs become the de facto standard any%, which can only really be determined by all of us collectively. It's not a question of banning it, it's simply a question of how to track it.

After examining the route more, I'm starting to think that an early fire route that skips water entirely may be the fastest way to beat the game on US with a couple sets of 150 spirit lights (~16 fire solvaring, 24 earth 19 fire zelse) The only real time loss in that route is inability to spirit dupe.

Skipping Cull Hazard saves about 9 minutes. We can only skip Cull Hazard with either save corruption for healing items or POSSIBLY a very large amount of early game spirit cramming (Haven't done the math yet.)

It's not just a bunch of healing items, it is also the ability to ignore water spirits entirely and also skip Cull Hazard and part of Blue Cave (maybe more) with few ramifications. It does not break the game entirely, but it does radically change the early game route.

 
  hoboX10hoboX10

Been messing around with Save Corruption a bit. I don't know what is known and isn't known already so I'll just point out some interesting things.

Doing the glitch while already having any items means the items are corrupted into spirit lights. You must do it in either Melrode or Dondoran so you don't corrupt the key items you get later. Doing it in Melrode means you can't wing out of the town from the spirit as you have no place to use a spirit light beforehand. This means you can do it in Dondoran first thing when you get to the town. You can't wing out of there either by doing it there, but I think running out of town in Dondoran is faster than running out of Melrode. Picking up any items in Melrode Monastery/Town are pointless/impossible in both cases.

Any items given by NPC's are never received. If you keep talking to them they keep trying to give you it but your inventory is full so nothing happens every time.

Chests won't open with a full inventory.

Item drops from monsters, including key items from bosses, are never received.

This means you have to be actively thinking about how many spirit lights you've used before picking up a bunch of items (mainly MP items) so that you can actually take them.

 
  squidtepigsquidtepig

After some late night grinding I found out that it is indeed possible to Wall Clip in West Carmage and Blue Cave. The Enemies gremlin and orc jr(best monster to perform the clip) and for Blue Cave Scorpion (Get over here lol.) But its kinda difficult set up. I believe that you will need a slient flute to prevent it from attacking/moving when compression wears off. The set up is nearly the same except that Brian's positioning needs to be on point. The entirety of blue cave is loaded and if preformed correctly you can save easily 18~20 minutes by skipping blue cave 🙂

 
  hoboX10hoboX10

More information about Save Corruption, all about JPN this time:

It is different on JPN than on US.

For one, it is much harder to get the save corruption on JPN. You have to turn the console off almost immediately after pressing save, and the frame timing seems a lot tighter. I can do US many times on the first try, but JPN takes me over 10 attempts every time before getting it.

Now for the weird part. Solvaring straight up DOES NOT drop the Earth Orb if you have less than 10 free inventory slots. I have no idea why this is. After testing the number down to 12, I thought 11 would fail and my reasoning was that maybe special items have reserved memory slots in your inventory. (6 key items + 6 wings). But no, 11 and 10 empty slots work. So if you are to do a save corruption run on JP, you have to use at least 10 spirit lights before fighting Solvaring, + use an additional spirit light for every item you pick up that you don't plan on using during the boss. (i.e. You can use 10 spirit lights, pick up giants shoes, and not drink another spirit light because you'll use the giant's shoes in the battle).

This is unlike US in the fact that even when you kill Solvaring in US with a completely full inventory, you still get the item drop text. But the item is not in your inventory. BUT on JP, the item drop text doesn't even show up with 9 or fewer open inventory slots, the game acts as if he's not meant to drop anything.

I have not tested if this is just for Solvaring, or if it happens to any other bosses.