https://www.speedrun.com/sekiro

And even more to the point, how does it already have one. It doesn't come out for another month. It is not part of a series. So how was it already accepted? Don't you have to submit a request with your own run attached? Do you not have to do that under some circumstances? Which ones? I understand it's a highly anticipated game but rule-bending disquiets me (as does the evident moratorium on submitting runs until 2 weeks after the game comes out - that shouldn't be for one person to decide a month prior to the game being released)

There are some hotly anticipated games coming out further later in the year that I want to take a active role in. Can I request them now? What exactly do you put in the "link to your run" field for a game that isn't in the wild yet?

I've heard anecdotally that this has happened with other games before so I'm hoping there's some concrete answers.

I did the same thing for a new game before. Games that are highly anticipated in the speed world will become overwhelmed with submissions, but also, game requests.

So who gets to start the leaderboard? Probably someone familiar with the community around similar games. It's a case by case thing I'm sure.

I know the only reason I got a leaderboard up before the game came out was to prevent trolling and letting the leaderboard go to shit with 100 categories. A few other runners and myself helped to build the community around it and added new mods as we saw fit. I would have preferred for it to go this way, rather than 100 people submitting game requests day 1.

Still doesn't quite answer the 'how.' Do you just submit as normal, and if so what do you put in the field that's supposedly required asking for your own run? How soon is too soon? Is it "don't call us we'll call you" from the site's perspective? That would be understandable, but it would sure be a bummer to be stoked to run a new game and then find that you either aren't allowed to submit for a certain time or other decisions you'd like to have had a voice in have been made without you.

[quote] That would be understandable, but it would sure be a bummer to be stoked to run a new game and then find that you either aren't allowed to submit for a certain time or other decisions you'd like to have had a voice in have been made without you.[/quote]

But, you can... run new games? As for making decisions, there is a discord where you can voice your thoughts. It's also not like the current mod knows the game, so decisions have yet still to be made.

As for not being able to submit for a timeframe... Why would this matter? I see they have a lock on the leaderboards for the first 2 weeks, which should prevent stress, which is a good thing imo :)

From the game request page, [quote]Well-known users or moderators of other games in a series may request unreleased games two weeks prior to launch. In rare cases, unreleased games may be accepted by well-known users and only at site staff discretion.[/quote]

In this case, the Sekiro mod is also a mod for the Souls series (same developer). Adding it well over a month in advance of release is pretty overkill IMO but for a high-profile release like that for a game in a "series" (for lack of a better term) that has such a strong speedrunning community behind it I guess it's just less a headache for site staff.

Also, not being the first moderator of the game doesn't mean you can't have an active role in it. You could still be added as a moderator, and even that aside you can still be involved in the discussion and make your opinions known regarding how things should be done. It's not like anything is really going to be set in stone before the game's release anyway.

[quote]

As for not being able to submit for a timeframe... Why would this matter? I see they have a lock on the leaderboards for the first 2 weeks, which should prevent stress, which is a good thing imo ?[/quote]

If that's how you want to enjoy the game, then do so in good health and good cheer. Dictating that to others doesn't sit well with me. I was never likely to run Sekiro (and certainly not at launch) so it's not this specific example that bothers me, it's the general idea. If a game is out and you want to submit runs, being disallowed from it is unreasonable.

[quote]As for the whole 'two week' rule. The more I think about this sort of ruling, the more I see it makes a lot of sense. There was a similar setup with RE2 (2019) at its release, [...] Same thing with Kingdom Hearts 3. [/quote]

At least in those cases the games already had a community.

[quote]It was likely worked out between the user and a site moderator / site moderation. Given that, it's obviously okay with the staff themselves and we are unaware of what discussions were happening between the two so a lot of this thread is probably going to be assumptions pretty much.

All that really needs to be said is site mods are okay with Sekiro being added and discussions were happening between the two.[/quote]

Which is kinda why I was hoping one would comment (and hey, I thought you were staff?), but it's fine if they're too busy.

Well, I'm still curious to know the proper timeframe for something like this (I was expecting to just submit a normal game request with my run for those aforementioned hotly anticipated games). But I feel better informed now than I did, so thanks all

[quote=emeraldaly]If a game is out and you want to submit runs, being disallowed from it is unreasonable[/quote]

It's less about "you're not allowed to do/submit runs" and more about "we're not going to verify any runs for a little bit because we need a chance to actually play the game and figure out how we want to run the leaderboard". I can see how it might seem weird/discouraging to people who want to do runs shortly after release, but for the moderators it makes a lot of sense (especially in cases like this where the game is likely to get a lot of speedrunning attention right at release).

And to that I'd say if you're not prepared to run the board at a time when the game is out, step aside for someone who is. Cause there's gonna be someone. If you want to have a 50 hour casual playthrough, that's awesome (I usually do too when I find a new-to-me game). But that necessarily means you're not yet ready to be a part of the speedrun community for the game.

It's not about people being "unprepared", it's that we have to learn about the game that nobody knows anything about because it was just released. Just because there's somebody who thinks they're prepared to run that board on day one doesn't mean they are or that they should be trying to just so that someone can have their day 1 WR listed immediately. I'd absolutely rather there be some time taken to actually learn about the game and properly think about rules, categories, etc (and not just the moderators, the community as a whole). If that means you have to wait a week or two for your run to be listed (which can happen anyway), so be it. Better than having to nuke the boards a week in because of a poorly thought-out decision made to quickly appease people who probably won't even be playing the game in a month.

Look, we obviously have a fundamental disagreement on this one, and that's fine. This'll be my last post on the matter, since further chasing of tails serves neither of us.

I think "start the timer when the game starts, stop it when the game ends" doesn't take 2 weeks to figure out. New discoveries are always made, categories always evolving. So why not wait a year or two to allow submissions? You're gonna say that's ridiculous and no one would ever do it, but that's exactly how I feel about delaying at all. So the "day 1 WR" is a terrible run. Big whoop. I'd just be happy there's interest in the game (and a run for me to compete against!).

[quote=emeraldaly]I think "start the timer when the game starts, stop it when the game ends" doesn't take 2 weeks to figure out[/quote]

Sometimes it really is that simple, in which case, great, "unlock" the leaderboards a little early then. However, it's often not that simple, especially with modern games where you can have things like pre-order exclusive content/bonuses, and where the game starts and ends can be tricky to define in large open games, etc. And if you want the community to have any meaningful involvement in those decisions (as you probably should), then people need a chance to play the game and figure out what the hell is going on.

[quote=emeraldaly]So why not wait a year or two to allow submissions?[/quote]

Not even close to the same thing but ok

[quote=emeraldaly]So the "day 1 WR" is a terrible run. Big whoop.[/quote]

That's not an issue at all. What I meant was that people wanting their "WR" to be verified right now!!! isn't a great reason to rush setting up the leaderboard.

Well, this is some thread.. Allow me to clarify some things why the boards are locked.

The boards are locked for a few reasons. We need to actually wait till the game is out to figure out some stuff. The first reason is just so there is time to figure alot of stuff out. Since this a game developed by FROM Software there is a high chance that this game will have IGT as a suitable timing method. If IGT ends up not being viable, we need to work out another timing method as a community. But to create a proper IGT timing method we need to test if IGT is actually properly usable as a timing method obviously. IGT in Souls games is already very messy so IGT in this game is something that really needs to be tested but that can only be done when the game has dropped. Another reason is to have sufficient time to properly create some categories and doing all of the above while everyone is still doing their first playthroughs and playing the game. These are basically the reasons I locked the boards for now.

I hope this clarifies your initial post. Feel free to message me if you have any questions.