Hey y'all. Notice someone got caught stealing videos and using them to make their own fake ones. A couple of their runs I had verified got taken down. I generally do a verification of runs to make everything and the run looks good and legit, but I'm not really sure there is an easy and quick way to verify that a video I'm looking at isn't actually just a rip or copy of someone else's video? I mean, obviously if the YouTube account is clearly not theirs that is one thing; but the fellow in question was taking videos, putting their own overlays on top of them and reuploading them? Any tips for trying to prevent this form of shennigan?
Depends on how they go about it. Do they steal the video and crop it in anyway? Going over parts of the vid with their overlay? If they try to obscure the video in anyway, they're not to be trusted from the start. Is their account new? Probably a red flag already. Is there a timer in the vid? Is it even properly timed if there is? While a timer shouldn't even be required it's important to note that it can 'help' with verification. Simply put, if they don't know how to time their run, they don't know how to run the game. People that steal vids will often just copy and paste the time the other runner listed (which is convenient if the runner they stole from timed their run wrong, cause it automatically helps prove the vid is stolen).
People that steal footage are much easier to shoot down than say, cheaters. Reason being is because they most likely know absolutely nothing about the game. So, start asking them questions. Ask them if they know how to do X, Y, or Z. Ask them if they understand the mechanics of the game they're even claiming to run. Having passed that, ask for a proof check. Honestly it's current year and we can stream from our phones, I don't see why it's so hard to pull off a stream. Even if it's just to show yourself attempting certain hard tricks only a speedrunner of that game would do.
If they try to be difficult, they're most likely a fraud. That's not to say that all people who only post youtube vids as proof, have no social media links, and never stream are frauds, they just make it harder on themselves. But if you confront someone with doubt, start asking questions, like "do you even run this?" And you're met with hostility, they're probably not legit. Ultimately YOU as a moderator have to make the call to accept or reject their run. I personally would reject a run if someone posted a competitive time that I had any reason to doubt and the runner simply tuned me out, waiting for me to accept it.
It was mostly for not very contested games as such. I can't see the vids anymore because it appears all their runs have been removed now, but generally, I think they were just taking runs that were video footage only, and then sort of putting a timer and some like basic twitch overlays to pass it off as their own, nothing particular that I remember looking particularly off. I think someone just noticed one of their videos were taken, so mods started double checking all their videos and determined the runner was doing it consistently enough to have all their runs taken away.
Thanks, I'll be sure to sort of like more at those details, about the runners and links and such, and possibly try to reach out more to runners. Generally I'm checking to make sure the game in question isn't cheated, runs at the correct speed and isn't obviously a TAS, but some of the other forms of cheating, like stealing a run that isn't even a particularly great time, can be nearly impossible to tell without being able to come across the stolen video online and comparing them frame by frame.
Yeah I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about. I don't even remember verifying their run, but it was a bad, 150+ rank run that I just timed properly, saw it was a finished run and moved on.
You can't catch all runs, cheated or stolen. Check any popular leaderboard. Probably a fake or stolen run in there. This is why I take the trust aspect so seriously when we start talking about top times, but a 20 minute run of an 11.5 minute game? I'm not going to sweat if they get past me.
It's very hard to watermark someone's run as anyone can go through any effort to take the run, I remember an incident where one of SVA's older all dungeons TP run got passed off in a race (not even his current pb, and older pb mind you). The community lives with trust and also dies by trust, don't sweat it too much just do the best you can. Eventually these scumbags will get caught.
Also i don't know how to quote but a small thing I do take seriously is the aspect that apparently only top times should matter. I called out a last place time several years ago because the person stated they never finished the run and guestimated it's end time, I don't care if you think it's not doing harm but if you put a time on a leaderboard and it's not real, it should not be on there period. Only caring about top times is a trash mentality, but sadly these are the only times that we know pass heavy scrutiny, with lower times having less care put into how they get verified.
In case I didn't make it clear, to answer OP's question, there is next to nothing you as a verifier can do, the onus is entirely on who's submitting. Take careful consideration if it's a brand new account cause most of the time this is a red flag, in addition look into the gameplay through audacity to see if it was spliced at any point in the video, even before the run begins
Harsh language like "trash mentality" isn't really appreciated. You can talk to me like an adult. I didn't say I only care about top times. Yes, I take top times more seriously, but that doesn't mean I just auto verify any run that pops up. I've stopped stolen runs in the past that certainly weren't competitive, but one also got past me before, because short of comparing it to every single run ever posted online, I'm going to have a hard time proving it's stolen.
OK I guess I'll quote this time to make what I said clear
Quote from Komrade: This is why I take the trust aspect so seriously when we start talking about top times, but a 20 minute run of an 11.5 minute game? I'm not going to sweat if they get past me.
As a moderator you should take it very seriously if any fake run gets passed you, even if you tried your hardest. Yes I understand you just meant the trust aspect, all I am saying is there is a mentality that the only runs worth taking seriously is the top times. Top runners only make up a small % of the community, if all the up and coming speedrunners start seeing fake runs ahead of them it will cause issues with trust in the community and their moderators.
Cheated runs will get passed off, and some will get verified, that's the main point I was making with OP. We can do our best right now to ensure things don't get passed off, but people will find a way if they're diligent enough. That's why even though it sucks a cheated run may show up on a leaderboard, at the very least its in a public setting where anyone can scrutinize it and report it.
To finalize what I have to say, there is no defending not caring about cheated runs that get passed.
It's not like I'm going to shrug my shoulders if a run gets passed me. I'm going to reject it. You've stated yourself that catching every run isn't possible. I take it as seriously as anyone should and I try to maintain legitimacy on the boards I mod, at any level, bad run or best run. It's not the end of the world if one got past ya, just reject it and move on.
These videos weren't cheated, or even speedruns at all. Some were longplays from various channels, or playthroughs of specific games.
They just didn't belong to the person who submitted them. (Downloaded off of Youtube, reuploaded on their channel exactly the same or very slightly cropped) Some of these channels are pretty large channels in the Longplay community so this person had to in some way understand they'd get caught eventually, and a vigilant user, who I won't name to avoid this person possibly sending hate their way, caught them out and informed me.
I don't take too kind to user's who steal other's videos/runs. So, they're now gone.
Strictly speaking, there isn't really anything you can do except try to be more vigilant. You can't expect to know every single video of the game you're moderating that exists on the World Wide Web, but eventually someone is gonna catch these user's out or notice something off.
@zewing Komrade wasn't saying or insinuating that he doesn't care about lower times. I think what he's trying to say is that he wouldn't be so down on himself if he didn't catch an illegitimate run in, say, 50th place on a leaderboard. I mean, which are you gonna feel worse about: Validating a cheated run for 50th place, or validating a cheated run for 1st place? Clearly in both situations you missed something, but one is gonna make me feel a lot less valuable as a moderator than the other.
So, just noticing that the person in question is ranked 6 under "most games played" in the user section. I imagine because all rejected runs still count towards having run a game. Wouldn't it be appropriate to just delete the account with all the runs associated with it?
^ That's more of an issue with rejected runs counting as 'runs' if anything, as the 'Most Played' games stat isn't accurate in general taking that into account.
Long-term solution would be to just stop rejected runs counting towards run count.
That would be ideal, as keeping the data for the purposes of auditing seems reasonable. Have no idea how plausible it is to remove rejected runs from being counted.