I suggest changing the timing method to SDA timing, because it is easier to verify the character sprites apperance/dissapearance in comparison to the menu jump where the cliff position gives a variated number of frames.

It is also the method we've been using even before the board was requested.

Who are you talking about? Are there other runners out there? You sure make it seem that way.

If they are so upset about this then why don't they contact me somehow? Where are they? What are they doing? Why are they so silent? So far I only know about you, and you could just be a vocal minority.

If there are people out there looking to use the leaderboard then they must also have speedrun accounts. I'm here. If they really do have concerns it's a simple matter to let me know, either through direct message or on this forum. When you said there were other and they all agreed, I was expecting that maybe somebody would say "oh yeah, we agree with him. please change it."

What did I get? You complaining to the site mods almost immediately. And then when you didn't get what you wanted from them, you threw a tantrum and took down your times like a child.

Very underhanded and immature.

@sasquatchbill are you talking about @duckfist and @JkLoser? If so, yes they both have speedrun accounts and if you wanted their opinion, it would be very simple to ask them. If you want the opinion of a new runner we could ask @overswarm. He recently won the big 20 event which featured the game. None of them are upset. If anyone is upset it is me and that is because of how you've treated me.

I can see how you think I might have contacted the mods early. But the 5 days you didn't answer my messages had been weeks for me. When I saw you logged on several times during that period without answering me, I felt ignored. It didn't help when you accepted the runs I posted to prove how the timing method was unsuitable for this speedrun. I won't deny I was influenced by negative feeling when I decided to take them down from here. But at that moment, having those runs up I deemed to not be properly verified, felt like a slap in the face.

If you have personal issues with me, please answer my private messages and write to me there. Here and now I ask as one of the active runners of this game that you consider changing the timing method to one that is much more suited for speedrunning this game, and also beeing the one I am using. If my opinion isn't enough, just tell me and I'll ask other people with experience in this game to contribute here.

@sasquatchbill Hi, I briefly ran this game back in 2016, I have a 22:34 using the timing method @Niss3 described.

I'm not active on here because I don't speedrun as much these days, and the site is a pain in the ass - as evident by witnessing an exchange such as this one, where some 'game series moderator' is able to dictate rules for a game they don't even run.

There are varying levels of community across speedgames. There tends to be a tight-knit group at the lowest level - a single category for a game, where the community competes and collaborates on that one category. On the next level up, the community spans all categories for a single game - for example, Mega Man X1 runners for both any% and 100% all get along because they love the same game. The next level up would be the entire Mega Man X series, where everyone shares some comradery. At this level the standards between games starts to vary quite a bit more, and perhaps there's even a tier in between that separates the SNES game community from the PS1 game community. The next level up would be the entire Mega Man franchise of speedgames, classic, X, battle network, and so forth. The community is much more sparse at this level, with little crossover between runners of the different series of Mega Man games, but still a loose mutual appreciation and respect. You don't, however, see runners exclusive to the X games impose their rules onto runners of the classic games. Similar situation here. In this case, NES Rod Land is different and distinct enough as a speedgame from the others ports to allow runners of the game itself to determine the rules. The Super Mario Bros leaderboard, one of the largest leaderboards on this site, has rules absolutely specific to Super Mario Bros. If you want a comparison of "ports" like Rod Land, the Super Mario All-Stars versions of the Mario games have separate leaderboards and distinct rulesets as well - and those ports are more similar to each other than NES Rod Land is compared to ITS ports!

I wasn't too upset about this because I don't really care that much these days, but reading your childish and defensive reply here brought me back. Niss3 is a very experienced speedrunner and basically the definitive NES Rod Land runner at this point in time, so it makes sense to listen to his opinion about this game. Stop with the power trip. In fact, step down from your position as moderator, this is just embarrassing, you don't even run the game, or hardly anything for that matter. At the very least, change the rules to actually make sense, or people are going to have to reset before the run even starts because they didn't get the right title screen framerule or whatever this dumb timing delay is.

Chill out dude. Yeah, I don't run this version of the game and yeah, I do realize that there are differences. Because of that I wanted to get more input from others. Unfortunately, I was under the impression more people would care enough to speak up.

I wouldn't feel comfortable making a judgement about modding or rules or anything else without that. Even if Niss is the definitive runner of Rod Land, how am I suppose to know? If I am on a powertrip for wanting to make informed judgements, then sure.

All of this seems even sillier under the light that nobody even cares!

Regardless, thank you for your input. Together, we can move forward responsibly. We will get this leaderboard set up right for you Niss!

Hi sasquatch!

I ran this game for about a month, but only to the whale. Niss3 was incredibly helpful during this time and, after the event, even stopped by my stream during full run attempts to give advice. I would definitely suggest giving a mod status to Niss3 and listening to his input -- when I asked him what the timing was he told me of the discrepancy and knows the game backwards and forwards in addition to watching others who play it.

I'm glad you changed the rules to something more specific. While I don't agree with SDA timing for every game (start on control, end on loss of control), it's a standard for a reason and fits this game well.

I'll just put my input in here, been running the game a lot with niss3, both PAL, NTSC. seen the difference in stuff like the final boss taking longer time to explode just because of rng, starting the game takes longer, cause of rng.

They had similair problem with Mickey's safari, and they decided to have start time on a more concistent place, and this is a game the requires that imo.

You should listen to Niss3, he runs the game, and he is really knowledgeble. When you aren't running the game yourself, you should add a runner as a moderator and let him and the other runners talk about the rules and decide and not just say "this is what I think, final word"

Lets all be grown up, move on from this, and learn from it. Be nice, be respectful. If someone added a game to my series, and I knew nothing about it, I would listen to him, cause I know nothing, he knows a lot.

OK good stuff. Let me expand on my thought process. The timing issue has been blown up so much that I forgot that my inaction was about something else entirely. I originally wanted to get feedback on the so-called "jumpless" category. Niss3 originally wanted to call it "default%". He wasn't going to run that category, but said others are interested. I thought it would be a good idea to get input from others about it.

My concern was that there are two options.

1. fast transition/ slow transitions
2. jump enabled/ disabled Default% would mean that both would be untouched, but a jumpless category would mean fast transitions could be turned on.

I personally would opt for a jumpless category because I don't see how slow transitions would add anything to the run. BUT Niss3 and I both don't run the category, so it would be silly for either of us to make a judgement on it.

This was the original cause of my inaction that Niss3 conflated to be some sort of personal attack and about the timing deal. I'll also admit I was pretty annoyed when I learned he was trying to go behind my back and contacted site mods.

Niss3 it was not my intention to make you look or feel foolish. I apologize for any miscommunications between the two of us.

JkLoser: I wanted to have the other runners talk about the game. I never had the attitude that my word was law. I really don't get where you get that impression.

I very much appreciate what everyone has said, and want to hear what everyone thinks about jumpless/default runs.

@sasquatchbill I never had any issues with the naming or ruling of the jumpless category. That is your own assumption. I would have reached the same conslusion. I even wrote "I guess calling it jumpless or no-jump makes more sense" to you.

The issue is that you didn't lissen. I repeatedly asked you to add other moderators, which would have made the whole process so much more efficient. But you were set on doing everything yourself. And I didn't mind that, even if you were incredible inefficient.

What I did mind, was when you started ignoring my messages. I posted the video showing the frame difference for a reason. I posted the runs to give you a chance to try it out. You could have made it so much simpler by just lissening to what I said and not push your own view on me. I took my time to explain what the differences between PAL and NTSC were. I were prepared to continue explaining things and let you do your thing, we could even have had a discussion about it. But that's when you didn't answer me for.. Well, you still havn't answered those messages.

It doesn't help when you, as the moderator, call me underhanded and immature. It doesn't help when you call this is silly and that nobody cares. It doesn't help when you say that the leaderboard will be set up for me. It doesn't help when you try to distort the issue as if had anything with "default%" to do.

I think jkloser was right when he said we should grow up and move forward on this.

I tried to make my point of view known, so we can move past all this. Miscommunications were made. This is known. The proper thing would be to figure out what those were and to reconcile them. I believe we have done so.

If there are any issues that you still have please feel free to talk about it, but I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here now.

@sasquatchbill accomplish? I suggested to change the timing method. You've done that. If you have doubts, want to change the jumpless category, gather opinions or whatever, just start a new thread with that topic?

I asked you to talk with me in private if you had a personal issue with me. What are you trying to accomplish by explaining that you though I got upset because you renamed the category here? You're wrong, and you obviously don't get it. Ignoring messages is not "miscommunications". If you want to regain the credibility you've lost, you could start by actually lissening.

So could you announce the latest rules?

WR Mod Edit: Retimed to 17:11, time starts on character control and ends when the boss hits the floor and shatters

We start the timer not on mushroom jump but when control obtained (after the cutscene) right?

The rules are under "Game Rules" on the leaderboard.

"SDA timing rules. Start timer when you first gain control of your character on the first level. Stop timer when you lose control of your character (when the final boss hits the floor and shatters)"

Depending on the position of Tam or Rit on the screen, some mushroom jumps last longer than others. It is more consistent to start and stop the timer when you gain and lose control.