In light of new information, we've decided that the in-game timer is not a viable timing method for this game, and we'll be exclusively using real-time going forward. The leaderboard and rules have been updated accordingly.
For future reference, the issues with in-game time are: • When you reload checkpoint, IGT reverts back to what it was when the checkpoint was created. This basically means you could save scum anytime you make a mistake to get a "perfect" run • Time spent during the final boss fight is not included in the final IGT • Time pauses during hacking puzzles • On 3DS and Vita, IGT doesn't show seconds
You should have included the runners from Backgate. asking the runners on the list what they think of it doesn't make a lot of work. Changing the rule without having to do a run and vote yourself is just ridiculous
This was discussed with active runners who discovered the issue, it wasn't even my idea to get rid of IGT (although I do support the decision for all the reasons we brought up). And for the record, I'm basically only a mod on this game to make sure things like this actually happen when they need to, I'm not personally making decisions about things because as you noted I don't run the game myself.
Holding a formal vote is completely unnecessary, this game only has 5 runners, 2 of them haven't even logged into speedrun.com in months. So if we did a vote it either would have been 3/0 or 2/1, so either way this was happening.
Do you have an actual problem with the rule change itself, or are you just annoyed with how we went about it? If you have a problem with the rule change itself that can be discussed, but if you're fine with the leaderboard using real-time from now on then there's not much to talk about here.
both of which i am not satisfied with the rule change and how to deal with it
now there must be detailed rules, such as about the suits, before any changes are made
[quote=TomEL092]now there must be detailed rules, such as about the suits, before any changes are made[/quote]
Please elaborate.
quite simply all but 2 suits have special properties such as immortality
which are banned on the in-game leaderboard
As I said, I still find the official best list rules to be best with ingame and according to the developer himself and that won't change either
Strongly disagree. The developers know nothing about speedrunning and didn't even know how to make a timer that works correctly, locking into their bad decisions is a very bad idea. Seriously, please look at the list of issues at the top of this thread and honestly tell me that's actually a good and fair timing method. If there was no in-game timer but we just timed runs like that anyway, there would be zero debate about this change.
Regarding the suits, that seems like a completely unrelated issue so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up here, but I guess that's probably something worth discussing if it makes much of a difference, since I doubt anyone's really thought too much about it until now.
Hi Tom. I fail to see what your issue is with converting to RTA. While I would agree that using IGT is almost always an objectively better method of timing in 90% of situations, the ability to abuse it to the point of reloading after having a bad section/fight or anything to that effect just isn't a good look. On top of that, no matter what you do in the final catwoman fight, whether you have the greatest fight of all time, or it takes you forever, the game literally does not count the time spent in the catwoman fight towards your overall IGT. On top of that, with regards to the other situations that led to this decision, 3DS and Vita do not show you the seconds of your time. With all of that, do you still believe the built in IGT is worth keeping? It's manipulatable, abusable, flat out INCORRECT & inconsistent across platforms. The whole discussion about suits seems entirely obsolete to me as well. The only way that I really see that mattering is if we were to have a NG+ category, which is definitely an entirely separate conversation.
To add on to what I just said, I apologize if you felt that you wanted to be included in the vote, and yes, maybe we should've gone about this better, but as Shiken mentioned; there's only 3 voices that matter here (shiken not included). 5 total runners, 2 of which haven't been heard from in months. The vote would have been 2 - 1 in favor of removing it anyways. But, again, apologies that you felt this was done poorly and/or improperly.
yes well the rule change makes sense in a certain way. what only annoys me is that the decision, as I said, was made by mods who did not run the game at all or only made one run and thus little to no Have experience. I who did the most runs was left out completely
Since we are now running in realtime, I would suggest that we make two lists, one new game where the rules of the ingame leaderboard regarding the suits count that you are only allowed to run with the starting suit and the second list regarding New Game + where all suits are allowed were my first thoughts on it
I understand your frustration, I do. But that's just an entirely untrue statement. Shiken has never run the game, yes. But John and I both have run the game many times before. We both have 4 full runs of the game, (John's weren't pb's and 2 of mine weren't) plus I have also run the game offline for practice purposes. So you saying that it was made by mods who "did not run the game at all or only made one run and thus little to no experience." is blatantly untrue. Now, we could definitely make a NG+ board, but I do think those rules could use some changing. It makes no sense to me that suits are banned in Any%. If you were to go and collect all the pieces of a suit to wear it, why shouldn't you be allowed to use it? Just because it's op? That's not a very good reason... if you were to go around and collect all the pieces to a suit legitimately from start to finish, you should absolutely be allowed to wear it, regardless of the benefits.
yes well that's your opinion on suits
the rules should at least go into what is allowed and what is not to avoid discussions in the future
and on the subject of in-game experience
According to your statement in your PB Run "This was fun. I felt like I actually knew what I was doing for the most part?" Sorry but doesn't seem like much experience for me personally
Alright, man. Honestly, I’ve had enough of this whole thing. You have a problem with the way this was done, fine. But now you’re just trying to discredit everyone else to make your points. The rule changes were justified and nothing you’ve said has held any weight and now you’re just being flat out rude and disrespectful and I really don’t appreciate that. We can discuss a NG+ board, but only if and when you’re ready to have a discussion without any of the entitlement and disrespect. Feel free to contact me on discord @Ritro#2069 for further communication.
all right, unfortunately you did not understand how that was meant
first it was no longer about real time or not
it was about more detailed rules for any% which is actually a good thing
Second, I just quoted your statement and just said how it comes across (to me) the subject of experience
you are right this doesn’t work because you’re still on the subject of real time
I wish you a nice day
I have to admit that I was wrong for real
Changing the rules from IGT to real time is really the best and fair solution
I played Blackgate again today after a long time
I've tested it, time really only counts from checkpoint to checkpoint
which is really unfair because you can reload from checkpoint to checkpoint again and again until it works perfectly
sorry i really overreacted this is the best solution
