Establishing Categories
3 years ago
Honduras

Proposed: 100% -> Beat the game with everyone, Must do Flan A, B and C. 100% in other games sometimes requires re-doing content, so repeat battles are not a problem. No skipping. True Ending % -> Beat the game with everyone, must do Flan C. All Playable % -> Beat the game with everyone, must do any Flan, skipping allowed. (The obvious thing to do is Flan A, and skip) All Playable | No Skips % -> Beat the game with everyone, Must do any Flan, no skipping allowed.

When playing the game for speed-run events, True Ending % is probably the better choice instead of 100%. It showcases all characters and has a satisfactory ending.

All Playable | No Skips % could be also named All Playable 1 CC, or All Playable | No Retries.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
SAS_rta likes this
Japan

I am sorry that I have been so busy lately that I have not been able to make any progress on this matter.

The current categorization didn't take Flanders' Any% into account, so it seems worth creating a category with skips.

I'm thinking of adding True Ending % and All Playable % if there are no specific objections.

Immac likes this
Japan

Today, I added True Ending and All Character (synonymous with All Playable, which I wrote about here), and changed the existing All Character category to All Character NMS (No Major Skips).

Immac likes this
Canada

I've reconsidered that the Individual Level run can be a thing, despite Flandre being an exception with most of her levels being relatively inaccessible due to the door selection mechanic.

  • Real time timing starts on level select as it does in a Full Game
  • Real time timing ends on some kind of standard
  • Levels that are not "directly" accessed by level select do not(?) qualify
  • Only Flandre's 1A, 1B, 1C, and Yuuma (Full Game Any% reclassification) levels qualify
SAS_rta likes this
Japan

I think the idea of measuring each IGT at each individual stage in this game is great, since the IGT is measured at each individual stage.

I feel that there are some downsides to subdividing the categories too much, but it would be beneficial for new runners to have more videos to refer to, and if there are no objections, I will consider the possibility of adding this as a MISC treatment.

Honduras

Hi, I believe the, "per level" timing could start on "Retry", instead of on character select, this makes all levels timeable. To maintain consistency, IGT is the better option because "per level" runs are for easing people into doing full runs, if we use RT, then "per level" strategies will vary from full run strategies.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
SAS_rta likes this
Canada

I agree that using Retry is better for setting a standard. The interactions I'm aware of from using it is that it will fix Kutaka and Utsuho's starting positions for some characters (neutral) and exclude the door selection time from Flandre's IGT (good). Unfortunately the music won't be able to be used for comparative pacing, but I think it's worth it.

While ranking will be based on IGT, as we are also collecting RT we should try to keep its guidelines reasonably consistent.

SAS_rta likes this
Canada

Expanding on Marisa's no B+C run, here's a list of restricted runs I think have some skill cap to them. I do not think they should all be immediately implemented, only if there is interest in running them.

Reimu

  • no A Notes: A use kind of involves skill but there's no other option; no B seems kind of slow with the absorb cooldown but there is something unique about being efficient with grazing and generating water; C use tends to involve more skill so it doesn't make sense to restrict it but it would mean learning more of the enemies' patterns

Marisa

  • no B+C (implemented) Notes: no A might make things harder but restricting it removes mobility and access to some B moves that make things more interesting; C is like Reimu's

Kanako

  • no B1+B2+B3 Notes: no A+B doesn't work because Kutaka's note projectiles only transform into water if you group graze them; no B is not as interesting

Murasa

  • no B+C Notes: no A is kind of like Marisa's; C is like Reimu's

Yorigami Sisters

  • no B Notes: no A might work, C is not really an attack so no need to restrict it

Flandre

  • no A
  • no B
  • no C (except for Greed Monster)
  • no 1,3,4,6,7,9 Notes: could probably also combine no left+right with no A or whatever other combinations work, might be redundant to include all combos
Edited by the author 2 years ago
SAS_rta likes this
Canada

Just some visual stuff:

  • I'm not sure when the Yorigami Sisters' Kutaka thing was fixed, but it would make sense to also include v1.03 in the appropriate grouping.
  • To place less emphasis on the default selection in the route categories for Flandre and Full-Game, if possible expand them into button sets like the one that exists for New Game/[Misc.] Tutorial, so you'd have something like Story Mode (Left), Story Mode (Middle), ..., [Misc.] Tutorial for Flandre
SAS_rta and Immac like this
Japan

Sorry, I forgot about 1.03, I confirmed that the Kutaka bug is fixed in 1.03, so I'll split it into pre-1.03 and post-1.03.

Also, I have added a run for each stage, albeit tentatively. However, I have not been able to find a site in either Japanese or English that explains in detail how to create these level runs, so the list is currently very long and unattractive. I would like to work on this if I can improve it, but if anyone knows of any way to do so, I would be very grateful if you could let me know.

Canada

I'd suggest having stages 1-7 in rows and the characters in columns with Flandre A, Flandre B, Flandre C.

I'm not sure if you can do buttons for difficulties, but you can also have them listed in rows like Stage 1 (Normal), etc. It might be better to do it this way as Tutorial also takes 1 line. A drawback for this is that some spaces are redundant/invalid, but they should be on the edges.

SAS_rta likes this
Japan

It turned out that the difficulty levels could be set individually without categorization, so I adopted the proposal submitted by uadopen and rearranged the columns.

If you have any other requests on this matter, please feel free to post them here.

Canada

Sorry for the trouble, seeing how the boards appear when selecting a level grouping it may be better to have characters in rows and stages in columns.

I also see that full runs can't be edited into a level run. If the Tutorial runs need to be resubmitted for a transition I believe everyone who has submitted one is active enough for it to work out.

SAS_rta likes this
Japan

It certainly seemed clearer to reverse the rows and columns, so I re-edited the characters and stages in reverse, respectively.

I also tried to move the tutorial run to the level run, but that doesn't seem to be possible. The idea is that it would be more natural to move the tutorial to the level run section, and in some cases I am considering moving it by resubmitting it.