So according to the rules, you're supposed to start the timer when the verb menu first appears, which happens after the beginning cutscene with Dave and the other two kids.

However, Dave moves around during this cutscene, and the position he starts in depends on where he was when the cutscene was cancelled. So theoretically, you can wait until he walks closer to the left side of the screen and start your run a little closer to the loading point (which can be desirable depending on your route). This can save about a second compared to walking to that point while the timer is going.

I guess my question is; is that allowed? Is it something worth addressing or is it not a big enough deal?

Interesting. When I started running this I pretty much copied what everyone else was doing.

I think what made them time from the verb menu is that it's an easy point to frame count from when you cancel the cutscene asap. If people started using the cutscene to relocate Dave I believe it would be more proper to start timing from fade in rather than end of cutscene. Well.. that is just what the speedrunner in me thinks.

If there is a demand for us to adress it I would suggest we change timing to an earlier point.
If not I believe it's enough to just say it's not allowed to take advantage of the cutscene

I added this to the main rules today;

Please cancel the introduction before Dave moves around since it can be concidered an unfair advantage. If the introduction movement is taken advantage of we might have to decline the run or add penalty time.

Bumping this thread since we have a new timing concern;

In Hamsteak% you benefit from switching kid as soon as possible. The new kid command stops the normal menu from showing up which lets you interpret the rules as the three kids names beeing the first "menu option" that appears.

I would prefer if all categories has the same timing method, so one idea is that we specify the number of frames from the "go to" action showing up to where we know the menu would be seen. Another idea is that we change the rules so we time from the action bar "go to" showing up rather than the menu (about 8 frames difference).

If anyone has any input or ideas I would love to hear your opinions on the matter!

I guess there is a difference in some sense but I'd been interpreting it all along as the timer starting when any portion of the menu whatsoever, including just the Go To action bar, shows up. Not sure what the end result difference its gonna make but would we have to retroactively change all recorded run times in all categories? If the rule is updated across the board then no one would be given an unearned advantage by doing so.

In a somewhat similar vein, does the timer get resumed or extended in scenarios where you regain control after "No Thanks/Werid Edsel launch, etc. but the game otherwise would have ended?

Like say you came in with a smashing 5:30 but went for the post-game meltdown for extra pizzazz. Would you automatically be relegated to a longer time/lower rank in line with when the menu disappears at absolute final game over?

Obviously this is hypothetical cause no runs are yet submitted for such scenarios, but I'm always considering the possibilities.

I'll take care of updating times if we do end up changing timing method.

Regainin control in any% would be "controversial", but I guess it could be accepted as a any% run if it is identical to a normal run. Then again, there might come a situation were we end up banning regain of control in any%, but that is just speculation.

I've always just kind of assumed that the new kid menu will display at the same time the normal menu would have, but I haven't frame counted to see a difference. It feels about the same timing wise, instead of buffering a movement (when not switching kids right away) I'm just buffering the new kid menu to show up. Would have to do some actual frame counting.

I've always timed my runs to the first frame when ALL menu options are displayed (3 lines of text, or 3 kid names), and I stop the timer when ALL menu options have disappeared, with the exception of hamsteak% where I stop the timer at first frame of "No Thanks". This has always made the most sense to me on the interpretation of the rules regarding time start/stop.

The way runs are frame-counted currently is as Ness stated: we start the run on the first frame that shows the entire menu loaded for the first time (including "CD Player in inventory). I have frame-counted Ness's newest run using two methods: I counted from the first frame showing all 3 character names after "New Kid" is pressed. Second count, I added 8 frames from the first frame showing "Go To" on the menu. Why 8 frames? Because I checked several other videos as well as talked to Nisse, and 8 frames is how much it takes from the first frame of "Go To" appearing, to the entire menu loading. First method counted his run at 2:54.167 second method counted his run at 2:54.267

The difference is 100 MS, or 1/10th of a second. Not a huge difference, but enough that it would benefit everyone who immediately clicks "New Kid" rather than letting the menu load. With that said, I think it would be easier to time these starts by adding 8 frames to the first frame that shows "Go To". We wouldn't have to adjust any times on the leaderboard either, as it would maintain consistency with the original method.

Math checks out.