Forums  /  Klonoa 2: Lunatea's Veil  /  Ban emulator runs in Lunatea's Veil ? Discussion thread
  BalneorBalneor

This is a thread meant to determine a course of action based on the answers of the community about this question.

I will leave this "open" for one week until the 14th of August, at 23:59 UTC+01:00 Paris, where the changes will be applied (Most likely by Harutomo but we'll see later).

Anyways, I don't speedrun this game nor know a lot about PS2 emulation, so this opinion isn't very relevant.
But PS2 emulation fundamentally doesn't look to be accurate enough to be properly comparable to real console. And its restricted accessibility doesn't help it being used in the first place, so is it all that necessary to allow room for it ? Don't really know.

 
  SquidSquid

Definitely shouldn't be allowed.

 
  BalneorBalneor

It looks like all of the the discussion we've had about this subject exclusively happened on the Discord server, and as of right now there does not seem to be a strong consensus (I would see so personally) despite the amount of people who participated. Maybe you could help change the balance there, sorry for this bother.

Also, if it is ever needed we could extend the time-limit, as one week may be too short for such a indecisive subject.

 
  SquidSquid

I don't think PS2 emulation is even accurate. I don't know of any other serious PS2 leaderboards that allow it either. I don't really feel like getting into a discord conversation about it but that's pretty much all I have to say.

DogveloperDogveloper, HarutomoHarutomo and BeuchiismBeuchiism like this. 
  BeuchiismBeuchiism

I'll just do my end rant here.

As Squid said, there's no other decently populated PS2 leaderboard that allows emulators for a reason. They're hard to get running, heavily depend on your computer's power to run properly, and they're most of the time not accurate.
This is already pretty restrictive and doesn't really work as an accessible option to run this game on (I don't understand why people try to put this as a reason to defend PS2 emulation in the first place), but even if you can make this game run fine on emulator the biggest problem is the shorter loading times, which would make emulator the "fastest" way to run this and isn't fair for anybody else in the leaderboard right now.

I'm 100% against PS2 emulation. No platform should be allowed that ends up faster than official hardware. If it somehow ends up being allowed, I think hiding emulator runs by default should be the way to go. We've had enough category discussion in the past and I don't think we should go through the same again.

DogveloperDogveloper, SquidSquid and HarutomoHarutomo like this. 
  HarutomoHarutomo

I personally think that this game should not allow emulator runs.
So I agree with the negative opinions of other emulators. In addition, if you talk more realistically, there is a problem that Popka's category becomes extremely simple and easy if you key bind for second player controller buttons to 1 player controller.

DogveloperDogveloper and SquidSquid like this. 
  BalneorBalneor

Very well... While this time the consensus doesn't encompass everyone's minds, it is easier to see how important in size the sides are. Looks like the one favorable to the ban of emulation is the biggest, so in that direction we shall go. Thanks everyone.
Harutomo knows what to do next (Though it's really just a box check).

DogveloperDogveloper likes this. 
  GuiNoodlecakeGuiNoodlecake

Rip me

I mean personally I think with a game like Klonoa 2 PC emulation is more accessible than finding the actual game assuming you don't have it anymore. That's why I have to emulate it anyway. Of course, the load times are starkly different on pcsx, but I still want to be able to compete in this game. I propose that, if I wanted to submit a run using an emulator, I could review the footage and compare the difference in load times against agne's #1 run. Then I'd just add up all the time and account for it in my final submission. It may not be 100% reliable or efficient, but at some point, I definitely want to put my times on this leaderboard and I don't necessarily want to have to find Klonoa 2 again and buy a capture card for my ps2, which lives with my sister several states away from me.

 
  SquidSquid

I don't want to come off as rude, but if you want to compete then I'd suggest putting the effort in & buying a capture card & getting your console & game together. Obviously nothing is stopping you from doing runs on emulator, but to try to shove it on the actual leaderboard because you don't want to get your gear together seems silly to me.

 
  GuiNoodlecakeGuiNoodlecake

Yeah I mean I get that but I'm not really in a place right now where I can go out and spend 200 dollars on a ps2, klonoa2, and capture card, whereas emulating the game is free since I already have a PC. It would be most ideal for me if we could come up with some way to account for the time differences that come from emulating, but if that's not possible then whatever I guess. I mean I have the time to go through and time every loading screen and if that's what I would have to do to compete I'd be down (I would probably only submit like one time once I really refine my game tho). I already timed the loading screen for coming out of Sea of Tears, and it took several seconds longer on a console so yeah definitely warranted that emulators are banned without accountability.

 
  HarutomoHarutomo

At least you have the money to buy a PC running the emulator, but I don't think it's difficult to get a console and a copy or to buy a capture for financial reasons.
Personally, I guarantee that the Klonoa series is worth more than its price.

・ Emulator itself is unstable
・ Fastest speed loading times
・ Depends on computer spec

It's difficult to verify load differences and correct time in all scenes and loads.
Emulators make illegal execution easier and require more validation, but they don't think they can do it much more easily than a console to see everything and I cannot allow the emulator with the leaderboard on srcom.

BeuchiismBeuchiism and SquidSquid like this. 
  GuiNoodlecakeGuiNoodlecake

Alright then that's fine. I probably won't be competing then for a while unless we somehow find a good way to make emulators work. I'll stay active though and practice on my emulator at least. At some point in the future if I get good enough that I believe it's worth getting a console then I'll probably start competing.