There are some disagreements and debates regarding the platforms for this game and how they are sorted and categorized. It would be ideal to get this sorted in order to avoid future drama. I have encouraged all relevant parties to participate via the various discords.

As a reminder: be respectful and civil towards others, agree or disagree.

i would just like to see what the vita tv thing does really in terms of time. it was hard to tell from the run that was on there

If there is going to be discussion about platform categorization I would love to participate.

Maybe I should explain more about how the boards are working, cause how it's set up right now was kinda my initiative.

The boards we have right now are not strictly platform boards so they are kind of misnamed, 'PS1' has ps2s in it for example, '75k+' includes ps3. They're more like speed divisions based on how the game runs on everything. So it's more like 'PS1 division', '75k+ division' and so on but that doesn't really fit on the label.

The problem that we ran into on this game is that it can run very different depending on what you're playing on. Mednafen runs roughly ~10% faster than PS1 afaik, the ps2 75k may be roughly ~20% faster than PS1.

So those two platforms don't play the game at the same framerate at all and don't really work on the same boards. And it seemed better to split the outliers off to their own boards rather than not accept them or whatever.

I think I counted 8 different platforms this game could be played on. Ps1, ps2, the ps2 75k+ slims with the software emulator, ps3, mednafen is five. And then with the digital version on the japanese psn store that can be played on vita, vita tv, ps3, and that version as we are looking at here might run differently than the disc, so 8 total.

So it's a mess to get all these things accepted. Having 8 boards and 8 records didn't seem good here, especially since imo a bunch of the platforms can be grouped similarly to each other. The other alternative was 1 board and 1 record where the only thing that's played is the 75k+ version, which is somewhat broken. So a few boards with some duct tape seemed like the best approach to me.

So that's the background with where we were trying to figure out where to put this pstv or psn run.

I had no opinion really cause I couldn't tell how it runs. Right now only meauxdal has this thing, and the only point of comparison was their submitted run in the misc category.

I think it's possible that there could be a fourth board for it, depending on what it does I guess. This was mostly meauxdal and jecht's conflict, and I was pretty tired of this stuff by the time this thing happened, so I kind of ignored it.

It seemed to me like it could be anywhere between the PS1 division and the EMU division, which the emu times as i said could be roughly ~10% faster than PS1. It's possible that this psn thing could be right in the middle of that and it needs a fourth board, I don't know. Otherwise if it was closer to PS1 I didn't know what to do other than throw it in there, if it was closer to EMU same deal.

Speaking of duct tape I was thinking if we knew basically what the speed difference was between platforms we might be able to adjust times to get them to fit on the boards.

Like we could have two fields for time then, 'Time' as it is here as normal and then maybe 'Recorded Time' for what was actually recorded before adjustment.

I wouldn't be opposed to a fourth board I guess if it's needed, but I would also be in favor of anything that could work without splitting it up more, if there are any 'close enough' options.

Also if the psn release is closest to the emu version, I think the board would have to be renamed to reflect that the psn release is the official version and that the emulator times are being thrown in with that. So like 'PSN (EMU)' or something, idk

anyway it's an official version so it has to go somewhere. any outcome i think would be a step up from earlier where PS1 and 75k+ were one thing

here's ~8 hours of PSTV footage from last month when i was testing and running this game on the platform. still more testing to be done, and the difference isn't as dramatic as some of the other platform differences, but pstv does appear to run slower than mednafen at a glance.

the platforms (PSTV and Mednafen PSX) appear to be different enough to warrant being separated. but to be clear, i don't believe the EMU category should include PSTV either way, as the EMU platform subcategory holds additional and substantial value in being one that anyone can compete in like-for-like without needing hardware. if PSTV is going to exist on the boards, it should be separate from the dedicated emulator category, which is open to everyone with a PC.

"don't believe the EMU category should include PSTV either way, as the EMU platform subcategory holds additional and substantial value in being one that anyone can compete in like-for-like without needing hardware. it should be separate from the dedicated emulator category, which is open to everyone with a PC."

so you will be separating emulator into its own category in 3J then? since you think emu holds substancial value in being accessible to anyone, unlike console.

also i assume there will be PSTV any% tests as thats the most popular category and the only category NOT hidden by default. youre testing PSTV on a race category thats 4mins long and hidden by default. It would make more sense to test it on Any% as that will yield the most honest results. its substancially longer than Termite and it spans most of the game. Allowing for better and much more accurate data collecting.

under the current circumstances in KF2J/1U, it makes sense to isolate the EMU category from any hardware. it pretty undeniably is valuable as a way of allowing players to compare times without worrying about hardware differences. introducing specific hardware to that category dilutes and devalues it.

i would rather leave PSTV off the boards (for now, if it remains contentious) than add it to the emulator category, both because at least at a glance it does appear to run differently enough that they wouldn't be competitive, and because the EMU platform subcategory provides an additional aforementioned benefit.

KF3J/2U is a separate game with a different organizing paradigm at the moment. all the platforms are combined, as the game doesn't vary nearly as much per platform as 2J does. were we to move to a similar split structure in that game, i would be in favor of keeping EMU specific to emulator there as well.

i agree that more runs should be done in any case. i suppose it falls to me to do them as i'm the only person in the community who appears to have the hardware at the moment. i think it's reasonable to just hold off on adding it to the board at the moment considering an any% run has not been completed, but my above arguments would still stand. under the current organizing paradigm, i think it makes most sense to put PSTV on its own board.

it's worth noting that the PSN release of 2J on PS3 has not yet been tested. it will be interesting to see where that release lands, as well.

i have read these new posts to be clear, since meauxdal does not want to do anything now though i was gonna respond later

Rypietrowski - "... since [user] does not want to do anything now though..."

This is perfectly fine. I'd rather nothing change and the community take that time to come to a consensus than for changes to happen only to be undone. Better to get it right later than wrong now.

(edited to fix typo)

sure, i figured the run had to go somewhere if they were playing

this forum thread is nicer than what was happening in the discords i gotta say