Jade Empire Forum  /  New rule change (Locked)
  Damp_DogDamp_Dog

Just reminding everyone that these runs on the leaderboard have been breaking the new ruleset ever since it was introduced and yet even after being told the mods have still not commented.
https://i.imgur.com/ZIE0yFO.png - pausing the timer is not allowed in single segment speedruns.
https://i.imgur.com/30SN2bV.png - neither is piecing together a video from other segments

Shadow_DogShadow_Dog, stootstoot and ROMaster2ROMaster2 like this. 
  ThirstyWraithThirstyWraith

Hey y'all.
My plan is to run Jade Empire on Xbox One when it becomes compatible (whenever that is..), and stream it via Twitch App directly from the console. There is pretty much no room to customize the stream that way unfortunately, but it would be the only way to stream or record the gameplay for me.
I've read the new rules which state that you must have an external timer. I assume the external timer is just the timer you see on most speedruns. Would it be ok to use the stream as a way to have the gameplay recorded on Twitch, download it from there, add the timer through editing and upload the whole run to YouTube? That would be the only way for me to have a timer.
Another question I have is about when exactly the timer starts if I want to customize my character. After I am done with customizing and start the game or as soon as I start customizing?

 
  EBenEBen

The new rules are ridiculous, and were only changed as a power move by the mods. At the time one of the super mods hadn't even completed a run, which made it clear they weren't fit to run the leaderboard. Instead they made new dumb rules that invalidated every single run that was ever done, and killed the game entirely

 
  NefariousMDNefariousMD
(edited: )

@ThirstyWraith The timer serves a couple of purposes. Firstly to give a more accurate run time, since you can view the timer on the frame the game starts, and ends, and work out the duration. And secondly, it makes it more difficult to cheat by speeding up your video, since the timer would also be sped up and would be noticeable over a long run. It is not intended to be a fool proof method of stopping cheating, it just makes it more difficult. In the case of console players, namely if it ever comes to Xbox One, I think it would be unreasonable to include a live timer, so maybe what you suggest is fine. I will need to have a think about it, and we could always discuss it whenever it does become compatible on the Xbox One.

As for your second point, the timer starts when you are done customising, and click the final button to enter the game.

@English_Ben The rules were implemented in order to make it more difficult to cheat. This was required since the #1 run at the time, by Damp_Dog, had cheated by speeding his video up 10% before uploading to YouTube. An external timer would make it easier to spot this, especially if the runner was less greedy and had only sped up their video by 1% for example. At the very least it would require more effort to cheat. I was also against removing any other times but the cheater's.

 
  EBenEBen

So the entire ruleset was changed even though you (50% of the moderation team) disagreed? That and the fact that the sped up run was verified in the first place proves that DukeNukemFTW is in no position to moderate this leaderboard as they clearly have no idea what they're doing. They made a huge blunder and instead of making it right, they killed the entire game and leaderboard in an insane power trip. Take this how you will, but they also appointed a new super mod who days prior had made a forum post saying they were just learning the game? How can you expect people to take an interest here when the moderation team either:
1. killed the game by making absurd rulesets, and then changing them once someone beat their time in a power trip and couldn't detect a sped up run
2. is still learning the game/run

 
  ThirstyWraithThirstyWraith

@NefariousMD since there are no way to cheat or edit on Xbox One, would the raw footage that was streamed from the console be enough? If it was somehow confirmed to have been streamed via Twitch App? Cause it can stream nothing but raw, real-time gameplay. You should be able to deduce the time by the vid's run time between the start and finish of the run, and I wouldn't mind it being rounded up by 2 seconds or so either. It would definitely make things a lot easier.
Also thanks for the quick replies.

 
  NefariousMDNefariousMD

@English_Ben

"So the entire ruleset was changed even though you (50% of the moderation team) disagreed?"
We both agreed that there should be an external timer. Pretty much every game that is on this website requires one, it is not a huge change.

"That and the fact that the sped up run was verified in the first place proves that DukeNukemFTW is in no position to moderate this leaderboard as they clearly have no idea what they're doing."
It is NOT easy to notice that a run has been sped up, even 10% is not noticeable unless you are really looking for it. It is not noticeable in fights, since they are so quick anyway and the animations are so fast, you have to look at the cutscenes and running sections. A moderator could sit down and watch the whole 2 hour run and not notice anything strange. It is easy to miss, and an external timer would make it easier to notice.

"Take this how you will, but they also appointed a new super mod who days prior had made a forum post saying they were just learning the game?"
Yes I was new to the Jade Empire page on speedrun.com, but I had been streaming Jade Empire on YouTube for a while, whilst looking for new routes, glitches, and optimising each chapter. That combined with the fact that I spent a long time going through Damp_Dogs video gathering evidence, and theorising ways to counter cheaters means that I was perfectly suited to be a mod. Just because I am new to this website doesn't mean I am new to the game OR to moderating runs.

@ThirstyWraith That was what I was thinking. I am not sure how fast the game will be on console anyway (not sure how good the Xbox One actually is, haven't used console for a long time :P) in terms of loading screens and so on. I was just looking at twitch right now. I know you can upload local files to twitch, but if it can be proven that you broadcast the game live from your Xbox One then I can't see there being a problem, we would just get the time from the video.

 
  EBenEBen
(edited: )

"We both agreed that there should be an external timer. Pretty much every game that is on this website requires one, it is not a huge change."

This is absolutely false, again proving you have no clue

 
  ThirstyWraithThirstyWraith

@NefariousMD On Xbox One you would most likely have an edge over Original Xbox players in terms of loading screens, which is why I was thinking that Xbox One would have to be its own platform. Now there is Xbox One, Xbox One S and Xbox One X, but I don't think the loading times would be much different between those. Since KOTOR is on Xbox One, I checked the KOTOR leaderboards but there weren't even Original Xbox runs.
You can stream on Mixer or Twitch via Xbox One, I would have to look into ways of proving that the footage actually directly came from the console (and if that is proven, the fact that there was no editing done is proven as well).
Haha. That's a lotta theorizing and the game isn't even backwards compatible nor was it announced to become backwards compatible, however I am sure it will be.

 
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