There is no doubt, that emulator and keybaord itself give already at least some consistency advantage against runners on real hardware with original controllers due to many factors like how you can setup your inputs, how they work etc, however it is usually widely accepted, that they can coexist under the same category with some exceptions like Kung Fu. It's a very thin line, what crosses the boarder of acceptance and what not. For many people, overwriting opposite direction is allowing that one step too far, since it's making execution especially in games like DK much easier and it was also standard rule almost everywhere, that L+R should not be accepted, because it diverges too much ftom how inputs are read on real hardware, thus the decision for separation was brought up.

As for cheating, it is true, that we have to relay on some level of trust from runners, especially on emulators, however it is not that much harder to cheat on real hardware to some extent e.g. connect 3rd party controllers, which allow L+R or even connect Playstation or Xbox controller with proper device, so you can very easily press one direction with dpad and the oppostie one with analoge stick.

In the end, although many people put serious time and effort into achieving their speedrunning goals, I still see it as cool hobby with a lot of satisfaction and entertainment usually without any price money involved. If we would like to be 100% professional, then we would have to not only separate emulators from original hardware on NES, but also force everyone to have camera on their controller, whole setup, desktops etc to be as much certain as possible, that no one smart enough got away with cheating. However, as said, it should be first of all, focused on having fun with as many people involved as possible. At least, I would like speedruncom to stay on that side , having some set of a little lenient rules, which runners abide as long as most people agree to follow that way.

After intial dicussion with other moderator and runners, it was agreed, that Switch runs should be put into separate category. The main reason behind this settlement is how Switch handles left+right and up+down inputs. For proper emulation (present in FCEUX, NEStopia etc.), which disables L+R, U+D inputs, there should be no input registered, when both opposite direction are pressed.

However, that's not the case for Switch, where if you press right, while still holding left, then the right input overwrites the left input. What's more, in case of DK, this Switch behaviour is exactly the same as allowing L+R,U+D on different emulators. That makes rivet skips in level 3 much easier to execute, since you don't have to wiggle between left and right frame perfectly without losing any frame between inputs, instead, you can just start holding opposite direction without releasing the other one. Additionally, it makes ladder zips much more possible, where normally, you have to wiggle up and down frame perfectly.

Due to those factors, we are leaning towards separation of Switch, unless there is a way to alter this behaviour to proper one, where no inputs are registered with both opposite direction pressed. This thread will be left here for few days at least, before the change is introduced to make more people aware of it and see their point of view.

Yes, you can run it on Switch, it is even added as a pltofrm and yoy can see it that people use it e.g. 9th and 11th place run are done on Switch

However, that's how it works with most NES games. If someone really wants to have a run of the same just slower PAL version on leaderboard , then submits it to main US category, just in some cases it's not called "US" category, but simple Any%. Here, it is called that way to disniguish it from JP version.

In my opinion it should stay like it is for following reasons:

• There are enough differences between J and US besides just health refill like change of some level structure , especially e.g. in 2-2, where you don't have to boost from spikes anymore. Other significant alterations are no magic pixel for 2-3 boss fight, which makes it longer in J version and paddles shoot bullets lower not allowing for 3-1 boost or forcing additional boost in 5-1 on conveyor belt instead of just walking below it.

• Historical reason also has meaningful part to it (where it has reasonable grounds for seperation with enough mentioned differences ofc), where some people were competing and putting a lot of effort into one version (here just US) throughout years. Greater example of this is Contra, where there is actually almost no gameplay differences for J and US and it's mostly about faster level transition, however too many people devoted too much time and effort into US version to merge it with faster J at this point in Contra

Additionally, in the end, very probably, J version is slower on optimal level than US due to mentioned 2-3 boss, 3-1 and 5-1 boosts and there is nothing to make up for those time losses besides fraction of a second saved on not doing boosts in 2-2, just it is def easier to finish run in J especially for newcomers.

To sum up, for me, there are enough differences between J and US to keep it as separate. I agree, that if it was only about health refill, we could think about merging them, since in perfect scenario you don't have to restrain from any tricks in US with enough HP left, so having more HP would just make life easier without grinding for RNG, which constantly kills you. However, there are sufficient other gameplay changes to leave it the current way.

Second quesion may arise, that is :"which category should be main one then?". We should also keep it, since as mentioned, US is rather faster category than J (even that it is harder) , so it should stay as main one. Besides, US is much more popular category, but I wouldn't put it as substantial reason due to the fact , that it has naturally more players being first category.

First of all,I won't produce here longer arguments , since I did that already 3 years ago, gave link to them and they stay, so there is no point to repeat myself.

To sum up, it's not just cathering to small amount of people, it's cathering to original unaltered gameplay without any changes with save states or hacks , if they are not necessary. Here, they are not, since it's just 15 seconds and if game started with 15 seconds cutscene like with Darkwing Duck or Castlevania, then we would never have this dicussion in first place, because it would be more widely accepted.

In the end, case is the same, speedrun the game without any alteration, so any way to skip the intro won't be allowed.

There was already discussion in that matter around 3 years ago as far as I remember. It's a little unfair to people, who wants to play on original cartiridges or without possbility of save states.

I will give a link below to previous discussion and will stay for not allowing to skip waiting. I would understand, if it was few minutes, but it's just around 15 seconds and that's most important reason for leaving it as it is. If it's really not too time consuming, then let's try to play as it was originally intended without any tricks. Otherwise, we can make romhack to skip bonus screen between stages and long cutscene after Zone G and then adjust time on the boards, since this wastes our time as well, but it's a little less annoying, so almost no one mentions it.

It's like removing initial cutscene from Castlevania 1, since it takes around 10 seconds and timer starts after that. It is big chunk of reset part for best runners, since they reset a lot after 15-20sec , when they don't get stop watch. However, I never saw bigger discussion about it like in case of CnD here again. Most people accept that, since it was always part of speedrun, it's a cutscene after you push start and game is more slow paced comapred to CnD, so I guess it is easier to go through that, although basic idea is the same: don't use any hack or save state just wait 10-15seconds before you can start the run as the game is programmed.

https://www.speedrun.com/chipndale/forums/z6j32

If PAL is exactly the same gameplay as US version just slower, then I don't see a reason for adding PAL category. As with most NES games to add PAL category, it has to have some distinguishing gameplay .

It's ok, since you are streaming and it's easy to see your full attempt session anytime, if needed. It's mostly required to show , when there is e.g. great run out of nowhere without earlier history from unknown speedruner, who never run anything before.

There is no need, but it is encouraged to do so. It's not big effort at all and makes it much easier to spot, that run is fully legit.

This may have been not clear to new runners I agree so I added new point to rules explaining this: "This category is about getting Top 1 Rank, NOT 25k points, so reset is required between attempts to reset Top score, as reset is generally required for NES speedruns"

Firstly, about rules for top 1 rank they will stay for reasons mentioned in this thread: https://www.speedrun.com/balloonfight/thread/6sk8b . I'll repeat here in clear way: reset before next attempt is required for most NES games, showing this reset on video as well especially, when there are doubts about run being legit. Main reason is to not manipulate RNG via save states, which should be disallowed in any way, since it's not possible to do so on original console with original cart. That's why without seeing reset, we are not sure if someone e.g. didn't start from save state after doing few attempts, since he discovered that more favorable RNG is present in that manner. As long as he do soft reset at least, top score resets and with it requirement for top 1. As for categories, Top 1 rank will stay as main category of balloon trip mode, since it's natural goal set by the game (and it works that way in some other NES game to get the initial top score), not any aribitrary goal set by runners like 100k or any other. That doesn't mean, that adding 1 or 2 additional score categories for balloon trip is bad idea, just not too many of them to not overwhelm board with random categories. 100k category seems initially like good idea, so it may be added as secondary category to balloon trip mode under miscellaneous. Also, I encourage you and any other runner of balloon trip mode to reset before next attempt or at least have a proof (in case of no reset between attempts), that there was reset, which led to submitted run after some attempts and there was no save state used anywhere for reasons mentioned earlier.

1. As for despawns, in my opinion we should allow killing every soldier, who is unavodiable not cocerning despawns, that is making any despawn not necessary. Since, the problem is, that new despawns like yours can be implemented any moment and they waste time compared to previous route, but also we shouldn't remove previous run just cause some despawn strat wasn't known yet.

2. We have to think about projectiles again. In the current record projectiles during second boss and homing missile in 4th and 6th stage are destroyed. If we want to go for no projectiles kills, then runner will have to die in 4th and 6th stage since homing missles are unavoidable I think. That seems much harder, especially not destroying any porjectile during 2nd boss, but as long as it's possible, then it still should be in the rules in my opinion. We have to always go for as much true pacifist as possible, even if it's much harder but still doable. Good example is Contra, where never any projectile is allowed to be destroyed even though some of them are quite hard to be avoided (like Base 2 boss) and in stage 5 you have to die twice in order to not kill tanks (similar here would be dying twice to homing missle). I will try to check in next few days if you can kill 2nd boss without destroying any missle, if so current record should be rejected and more strict rules specified. If that rule is applied, then we should allow destroying anything, when you touch it and when you are destroyed at the same time (which doesn't concern foot soldries ofc), since projectiles explode, when they touch you.

3. Yes, it has to be low% at the same time due to the fact, that getting powerups requires destroying additional builidings and destroying anything unnecessary is disallowed in pacifist.

Sure, pacifist is good idea for category, so I already added it. Unfortunately, I cannot accept your current run, since usually in pacifist runs, runner should avoid detroying anything unnecessary and that includes not destroying anything unnecessary during boss fights like projectiles or smaller enemies. In your run , you destroyed one knife during first boss fight and few more of them during refight.

Mappy arcade is completely different game (different code) than arcade version, so it should have separate leaderboard rather than being on the same board with NES version. As soon as you do run of arcade version you can request new leaderboard via support hub ( https://www.speedrun.com/knowledgebase/supporthub ) .

I see that FC platform is some latest update from srcom. I'm not sure, if doing that is good decision, since it's the same console as NES just japanese version and it just happens to have different name. To distinguish between them we had japanese flag next to console for many years. I would wait with that and see how situation develops, since changing game from NES to FC unnecessary splits statistics etc. Few boards added it for now, there is still no platform option like 'Super Famicom' and what about later consoles like N64 or PS1 ? Split will never happen there probably, since japanese counterparts have exactly the same name already. Adding separate console just cause name of the console is different, but console itself is almost exactly the same and it can run basically the same games, is not the best idea (I'm talking here about possiblity of running game through adapters etc , not if it was published in certain region or not, also there are many japanese only N64, PS1, PS2 games etc.). If we follow that trend, then we can split as well Sega Genesis (US name) and Sega Mega Drive (EU name), which is even worse idea. So how it should be implemented in my opinion, since it's already added and probably won't be gone: have NES and FC in every game (doesn't matter if it's japanese or US) , so runner can choose on what version of console he actually played the game (as mentioned you can play japanese games on US console and vice versa) and leave indication of what region of the game was played to the flag as it was.

It's corrected already. You should put your time on "time without loads" instead of "time with loads". "Time with loads" is only for FDS version as explained in rules. You put it under wrong timer so it was treated automatically as no time thus last place.

The Disney Afternoon Collection differs in terms of having last ingame lag. That's why, it's put on separate leaderboard here: https://www.speedrun.com/the_disney_afternoon_collection#DuckTales .

It's nice challenge, however , it's just different type of controller, so I don't see a reason to have separate category for that. It fits to standard any%.

I would rather not recommend this kind of setup. It's just fake of NES Mini, so it may even run on very poor technology, that is called "NES on Chip", which can be very inaccurate emulation and good enough reason for rejection. Apart from that, many times in those compilations, not original ROM is used, but altered one, where copyright info is removed (or maybe even some other more drastical changes like sprites), which again has enough grounds for rejection, since only original ROM can be used and any changes to it, even the ones that don't influence gameplay are banned.