Hello

What has occurred here once again confirms why Ryedawg is both untrustworthy and undeserving for any position of authority. Ryedawg stopped running this game 2015-05-29. He stopped any level of consideration for the routing, the game itself or the leaderboards. How has his two years of absence and a sudden renewed interest to complain about non-existent problems, instigate witch hunts and spam memes, constitute showing motivation? Given that this "changing of the guard" was done without any consultation with the current moderators again shows that Ryedawg is not fit to lead. He has on one hand complained about insufficient discussion with changes (when the majority disagrees with what he wants). But on the otherhand, he has taken it upon himself to make the ultimate change to crown himself king without any form of discussion. It is a level of hypocrisy few have the chance to witness.

Ryedawg is a man who advocated that exclusive DLC (unobtainable by new runners by any means and that gave an in-game advantage) should be allowed in the game. Why? Because he wanted to buy a helicopter. Being a moderator is more than simply changing numbers on a leaderboard, a mod has the power to define what makes the runs what they are. It involves making decisions that are the best for everyone, not simply Ryedawg (who appears to be the only person he truly cares about). Ryedawg, with this action, shows he has no desire to consider others in his actions. He additionally knows nothing about the current state of the game and has not even shown the time and patience to improve his skill at it beyond a mediocre level. He even seems to have spurred on people to submit false times to this leaderboard. What exactly qualifies this untrustworthy, impatient, uncommitted, power hungry and sporadically interested person to usurp all those who were once mod?

Toriks should have been mod long ago, but not as a tool for Ryedawg to justify giving himself a crown. Toriks has been largely absent from any of the larger discussions that have occurred on the discord revolving around rules and changes. He also previously turned down the chance to be a moderator when it was once offered to him, this hardly shows motivation to be a mod. He additionally has obligations with his work and this does not likely mean he has the time to trawl through the submissions that are received. He is there for Ryedawg to justify taking control, that is all.

That you disagreed with what I view as a sufficient level of accuracy, does not mean that the methodology I employed as a mod did not result in the same level as accuracy that you apparently crave. I did not, at any point, suggest I was not willing to maintain accuracy. I would have noted this, had you asked me about the topic. Find me any person who has run the game in the last year that has found the accuracy lacking.

It appears that even speedrunning is not free of cronyism, at least this is what it appears like on the surface and seems the only reasonable way to explain this outcome. There are two people who have, for the last two years, stuck with the game and built the run to what it is. You don't need extra guesses to know who they are, me and Toriks. Even beyond this, there are literally dozens of people who have put more time and consideration into everything surrounding GTAV than Ryedawg. Had Toriks been made a mod, the sole mod, it wouldn't have made sense but it wouldn't have been as objectionable. Of all the people who have commented/liked above me, the most recent run done by any of them was 2015-07-24 by Mizterconfusing. I am impressed Ryedawg that you were able to troll your way into power, I am angry at myself that I even more a moment defended you from criticism or held even a modicum of respect for you. You do not need to readd me as a mod, but Ryedawg being a mod is a mockery to everything even tangentially related to this discussion.

¤edit: What has further come to light is that Ryedawg had lied about the state of rule changes, as well as the additional mod he wanted to add.

According to CheeseLover, the following missions are not replayable from the Replay Menu:

Paparazzo The Partnership Grass Roots - Franklin Grass Roots The Smoke-In Seeking the Truth Accepting the Truth Assuming the Truth Bearing the truth Exercising the Truth Special Bonds Death at Sea What Lies Beneath Nigel and Mrs Thornhill Extra Commission Far out The final Frontier Mrs Phillips Damaged Goods

I suggest they get removed from the Individual Levels leaderboard.

Hello I have been the only one experimenting with the Ifruit app, as far as I know. Its use was somewhat justified given the logic that other speed runs utilize similar official addons e.g the tingle tuner in wind waker.

I have recently discovered a different 'quirk' with the app. It is possible to transfer over the car upgrades of any file onto another file. I tested this when I arrived at father/son with michael, not starting the mission. I saved the game, loaded my 100% save file, queued a paint change for my car, loaded my original save game again, and michael's car was the car from the 100% save file but it had the new paint. Michael of my original file was charged the cost of the new paint, 650 dollars, that is all.

Doing this takes about a minute, changing from file to file, but something else can be done that is more run viable. It is possible to go into a 100% save file, buy a change colour for Franklins car, start a new game, and have the 100% save file car be Franklin's starting car. For some reason if I do the same for michael his car is not the 100% save file car when I get to it. I have yet to test if Trevor's car is the 100% save file car but I did have it happen once accidentally that trevor spawned with the upgraded car (I didn't know why it happened at the time).

This new bug/strat is similar to the 'FFM' banjo-kazooie glitch http://www.speedrun.com/bk#Any1 Basically, one uses a pre-prepared file with all the moves learnt to 'copy' them onto a new save file.

I am not one to argue that just because one thing is done in another speed run that it should be done with GTA V, but I don't see any problem with doing this. It will both shorten the run and make it less arduous.

Any objections? If I figure out how to get Michaels and trevor's cars to spawn upgraded, in the same way Franklin's does, this will make it far easier for everyone. You won't need to do any upgrading while playing, it will just be something you prep before you start.

¤Edit: Gael has informed me that loading an external save file during a run is against the rules. This was not likely to be useful anyway but the pre-loading prior to starting the run would be.

I can't seem to find a way to search through the responses for key words, so I am unsure if my problem has been mentioned yet. I am a mod on the GTA V leaderboards. We used to have the leaderboards naturally ordered by default with the 'time with loads' column rather then the 'time without loads'. This is because few people bother to use the loadless timer because it can not be used on the most competitive patch and Rockstar continually breaks it when they release new patches. Currently, whenever anyone comes to the page they are greeted with this: http://imgur.com/07PP6NK This is less than ideal -.- Clearly the runs are not being shown in order of speed completed. Just hope we can get an option to resolve this at some point.

The 500k is a little bit different. If every single released copy of GTA V gave the players 500k, then it would have allowed. It was restricted because it can not be obtained anymore. A person can not obtain that 500k (to the best of my knowledge). It was not even released with all the different versions of the game. It was not a feature designed in the game but a bonus obtained for doing something in real life during a specific time frame. The app on the other hand was designed specifically to be used with the game, by any player who wished to use it, and can be obtained by anyone even now. As people commented to me when I brought it up, other speed runs utilize such features and it is an intentionally designed aspect of the game. We can't even argue it is too hard to use or obtain because many runs utilize difficult to obtain or even expensive hardware.

I did half a run with it, it is not life changing. It would be a rare occurrence that a run would be made or broken based on whether the cars were upgraded but it does shave off some time here and there.

Hello So I recently discovered that the official GTA V app 'ifruit' is not simple a cosmetic or 'fun' addon for GTA V. The app allows you to upgrade your vehicle. It hooks into your game and updates as you go through missions.

I put this discovery out on twitter and the response was both some hesitancy whilst acknowledging there is a precedent for such addons being used in other speed runs. It can be used on windows 10, or any apple or android product.

I am starting to route how it can be used, it will not be game changing but it will save time. For example, you get one free upgrade on a new game. Therefore, during the prologue cutscene you can upgrade Franlin's engine, brakes, suspension, armour and turbo. This still does not make the car better than the car you take from Simeon's but you do drive Franklin's care for a small part.

I do not believe that we should use the 500k that some people get at the start of their game, so I am routing where the upgrades unlock and when we have money to do the upgrades.

Is there anyone who can think of a reason why this should not be used, bar that it makes it more complicated to use the fastest hardware? There are other runs that exist that require niche and non-english hardware/game cartridge as well as niche devices such as the 'tingle tuner'. As a final point, if anyone ever wants to see this game run at a GDQ, stuff like this will be somewhat appealing to viewers as many will not know this is possible and this will further reduce the length of the run. Doubtful if it would ever be run but this sort of thing is required. In routing this I will likely find more strats (I think I have already found 2 unrelated to the ifruit app despite only being 1/7th of the way through routing).

Anyone have any thoughts?

¤Edit: Here is a rough guide of what a person would do with the phone/tablet app.

Prologue – During Cut scene – Franklin - Upgrade Engine, Brakes, Wheels (Rims), Exhaust, Suspension, Turbo End of Complications – During Drive to Michaels – Michael - Upgrade Engine, Brakes, Exhaust, Turbo, wheels (Rims). End of Friend Request - Next engine unlocks - Insufficient Funds End of Long Stretch – Next engine unlocks - Insufficient Funds End of Mr Phillips – Gain Access to Trevors Car – Do Nothing End of Crystal Maze – Next engine unlocks – Do Nothing During Friends Reunited – During Drive To Bikers Place – Trevor – Upgrade Engine, Brakes, Turbo, Wheels. Michael – Upgrade Engine. End of Three’s Company (With Franklin) – Gain Access to Bike Upgrades – Do Nothing Inside Hood Safari – Any Time During Mission – Franklin - Upgrade Exhaust End I fought the Law – Last engine unlocks – Do Nothing Eye In The Sky – Upgrade all characters engines and finish any upgrades during helicopter flight.

¤Do not upgrade armour and or tires. Both simply increase weight and thus reduce speed. Upgrading wheel rims reduces weight.

It couldn't have been luck, I got it half a dozen times. There must be something else that influences it perhaps.

Yeh something like that. Really depends how early we can do it. It also has the advantage of being a 'saving grace' is you happen to get seen by the cops and it means there is no chance of crashing and losing time on the drive (which doesn't happen often but still).

You always leave at midnight. You have three stars which takes a minute to lose. A minute in real time is 30 seconds game time. It takes between 5-10 game time to get in the car and lose the cops. So you will arrive (if not seen by the cops) between 35-40 in game time. It would then take between 18-28 second real time of waiting to get to 12:49. If it works, I will test further with earlier times.

Hit yellow marker at 00:49 yeh. Wait in garage or in front, doesn't matter. You can wait a tad longer if you wish.

Yo, any chance you could change my name "Matthew Judge" to "darkviper88". I might have filled in something wrong there ha.

That is what I am asking for yes. If it isn't an already existent feature I will just have to hope it is implemented in the future. Thanks for the response :)

Matt

Racing. Let me address 100% first as it is the only category that we might eventually have. Until four days ago there was effectively no one running individual levels. There are still very few runners doing it, or who have the time to run at all. The fewer categories there are the more centralized and focused people will be in terms of submitting times. This will increase the likelihood of competition in the individual runs themselves. We will likely have a 100% eventually, but only when the original individual levels have been submitted to. There seems little reason to introduce another 100 dead levels.

You seem to have confused Any% and any% NMS. These are very different categories and I will address them both (There are reasons why these points don't apply to Full-Game Runs) Any%: In individual levels you start with all weapons. This means that you start with C4. It takes about 21 seconds (with a good PC) to kill yourself 3 times and skip ahead using C4. This means that ANY mission segment that takes over 21 seconds should not be done, you should just skip it. In the individual levels, this is 98% of the runs. If you saw any of my "Any% WRs" it was just me exploding myself with C4 12-16 times. Additionally, there is an issue that people load the game at different speeds. Over the course of a full NMS run it doesn't matter as much and in individual missions there are few natural loads. In individual levels, for an any% run, the person with the faster loads WILL have the WR. Each death causes a loading screen so you will have perhaps over a dozen loading screens over the course of a few minutes. There is very little skill involve in blowing yourself up 3 times, meaning that the difference in times for the categories will simply be a ranking of PC loading speeds.

Any% NMS: If you have the WR in the classic % individual level, this should mean you will have it in the any NMS as well. There is no skill in taking a taxi, none. You can't do it better or worse than another player unless it is determined by RNG. Meaning that if you are the BEST at the classic % individual level, then you should be the best at the any% NMS. Therefore there is no need to have a second category. Additionally, many missions do not allow Taxis and thus about half of the missions classic % and any % NMS would be identical. Even worse, in missions where you have a 1/10 chance of having a taxi spawn on the road, you will have to restart over and over and over and over until you get the RNG taxi spawn in order to have a competitive time. It would eventually mean that the SOLE determinate of whether or not you have the WR is whether or not you got a free taxi on the road. Classic % is kept because it gives the greatest ability to differentiate skill of runners, and therefore it is more competitive. Giving every single person the exact same skip that takes no skill to do does not give us anything other than a much more crowded leaderboard.

Hello This question is about the http://www.speedrun.com/gtav/ boards Recently we have made changes to the individual levels. In GTA V there are two types of individual levels, the missions and the "strangers and freaks" levels. Currently when you click "level leaderboard" it brings up both the individual missions and 'strangers and freaks' in one HUGE list, something like 100 entries. We wanted to know if it were possible to create two different sections under individual levels to differentiate between the two types.

So the column would read: ¤Full Game Leaderboard¤ Classic % Any% No Mission Skip> Any% 100%

¤Level Leaderboards¤ Individual Missions Strangers and Freaks

This is opposed to the simple "show levels" that there is now. It would be preferable that there just be two options that open to the respective full boards of 'Individual Missions" and "Strangers and Freaks".

Thank you for your consideration

Matt - Darkviper88 (Mod of GTA V)

"I've come to the conclusion that this is the best way to do it" Kyle. Best is a relational term in that what it means is ultimately dependent on what it relates to. If I said "X is best" I have told you nothing about X other than that it is meeting some particular criteria that I have not explained. You have stated "most boards IGT" as effectively the entire reason why it should be used. You have than noted things about these boards and fallaciously attributed ANY positive attribute of then to the timing system.Effectively, your argument has always been that what is best is what everyone else is doing. This is simply not a good reason to do anything and we can be pretty confident that the 007 boards would not have used IGT if they would have lost half the missions (and they had some other valid timing choice). Just because something is used in one context, does not mean it should be used in an entirely different context. GTA V is not 007.

"Are you expecting every submission from this point until the end of time to be downloaded and verified to the thousandth decimal place via video editing software" I already covered this. ONLY in the event there is a dispute on the time. If there is no dispute, then whether a person got a 7:31.5 or a 7:32.0 literally does not matter. Using splits is only inaccurate generally within a second, it is literally irrelevant unless the times are so close that they need to be differentiated. Meaning, the split time you get is fine. We are not likely to get many submissions any way (while this may be planning for failure, it is simply realistic)

"Why the hatred for the IGT" Because it is only accurate within to a second, could not be used in other categories if we ever decided to make them or keep them in the future and that it removes half the missions OR leaves us in a situation where half the missions are timed in one way and the other half are timed in another way. The timing system does not provide us any objective benefit other than...

"UNIFORMLY" ....which is completely unnecessary and has no actual value.

"IL boards are not meant to be anything more than a place for competition. It's not about showcasing, it's not about creating tutorials, and it certainly isn't about going further than even the game goes to figure out your RTA time down to the thousandth decimal place. " Says who Kyle? Says fucking who? Did you find a divine book of Holy Speed running scripture? No. But more importantly, who is making the argument that these should be used for anything other than competition and what on earth does that have to do with ANYTHING!

"The Goldeneye IL board is the most competitive board I have ever seen and it's been going strong since pre-2000, with a major surge when live streaming/Twitch came around" BECAUSE OF BOTH THE GAME AND THE TIME IT DEVELOPED! It has NOTHING to do with the timing system as I went to amazing pains to explain.

"I've been following this board for a few years now and I've seen how intense the competition is there." As I have explained from the beginning. Your argument is "I want this to be like the other games that I have nostalgia for". Get your traditionalist mentality out of this conversation and argue from benefits and utility. You put forward the idea of uniformity. I have put forward that its cost far outweighs its benefits as detailed above.

You are continually creating a fallacious argument equating correlation with causation to argue that the competition is caused by the IGT. Can we all please acknowledge that all the actual speed runs, the most competitive, DON'T use an IGT? Yet are still fricking competitive? For the last time, the reason 007 is competitive is not the dam timing system. It is because of both the game and when it was developed. Both variables related to the game and it context, none of which exist for GTA V. This game is not 007, and for all the reasons I mentioned previously, will never become it.

"Clearly your biggest issue is the removal of the 30 missions. As I made clear on my third to last post, this shouldn't happen if someone feels strongly against it, and someone does, so it won't happen. " Which was detailed at the very very beginning of this conversation, yet we are still talking about it. "I want this game that I don't run to be like 007", over and over and over.

"My recommendation" Is literally worth nothing until you take an active interest in running the game because the basis for your recommendation is both fallacy and nostalgia.

" Unless you're importing your video into video editing software and timing from the first to last frame, your RTA time is almost always going to be inaccurate" Kyle. I am beginning to question your sanity. The video is an absolute perfect recording of the exact time the run took. Exactly 100%. You have argued "People love accurate times" and in response to this I noted that no one can be fucked to take the 5 minutes it takes to get the PERFECT time for their run. This demonstrates, beyond doubt that no one cares about a perfectly accurate time UNLESS it is actually relevant. Whether I got a 7:45.5 or a 7:44.9 ONLY matter if someone else got the same time. This is literally the only time this matters. If one particularly eccentric individual cares about the exact time, they can always examine the video. The in-game timer gives us literally nothing. Literally nothing!

The bottom line Kyle, you do not run this game. You have never run this game. Yet you seem to believe from this fountain of lack of care or involvement in this game you can determine what is best for it. Mate, it is very easy to be willing to gouge a game of its content WHEN YOU DON'T RUN IT! I assure you that if you ran the game you would have a different opinion in regards to gouging content because you want to use a different god dam timing system because you think it is pretty.

"Am I not able to examine how other similar operations work and come to the conclusion that they're doing it in the best possible way? " You have not made an argument that it is the best possible way. You keep saying "Well it is better...because it is better". I point out to you that the timer is by definition less accurate and your response is...but....its is more competitive. You are removing half the competitive tracks AND ARGUING IT IS MORE GOD DAM COMPETITIVE (Some of those missions are arguably the best in the game). That is absolutely insane. The ILs in this game are not run, and likely never will be run to a great extent, for the reasons I described. You have provided no evidence that In-Game timers make this more competitive, or inspire people to run. The only point you put forward was making a fallacious argument confusing correlation with causation, when clearly the reason those games were run had nothing to do with the dam timing system.

" IGT is the best possible timing for competition" Defend this point. Defend it. WHY is it more competitive? Is it the most accurate? No. Does it provide the most missions to race in? No. Do people care about absolute accuracy? People's lack of desire to determine their most accurate time determines that they do not. Is there any evidence more people would run with this timing system? No. Has there been anyone who runs this game ASKING for this timing system? No.

If you look down our discussion Kyle you have been pulling at straws to defend what is ultimately an absolutely insane point of view. I have shown every time you have found some contrived reason to use this timer why what you are saying is wrong. YOU Kyle, just you, like a particular timing system for what appears to be entirely nostalgic reasons. That you think you have other reasons is immaterial to me. This is not a good reason to gouge the game of content.

"Am I not able to examine how other similar operations work and come to the conclusion that they're doing it in the best possible way?" You are looking at what they are doing and arguing that because they are doing it, we should do it. This has been your entire argument from the get go but you keep attempting to change the wording and prop up this point with other fallacious arguments.

All your options you put forward are predicated on something I do not agree with Kyle. I do not agree you should have any input or that you should be the deciding factor in what categories exist. You do not run this game. There is no one who runs this game calling for In-Game timing. Just you. You alone. A non-runner. I do not believe I should decide what happens, I believe the present runners of this game should. I asked for the mods to be involved because they are the only one's who can make the changes. I did not ask because I believe you have some special wisdom related to GTA V.

So ultimately I want you to answer two questions: Why is IGT more competitive? Be very careful to actually DEFINE competitive in your answer. Additionally, why should non-runners dedicate how the games they do not run are timed?

Kyle forgive the length of my post, I cut it down significantly but I had to leave in what I am responding to. "I'm referring to IL boards like http://rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye http://rankings.the-elite.net/perfect-dark http://www.mariokart64.com/mk64/wrc.cgi which have been around since pre-2000 (Perfect dark in 2000). None of these would have ever become popular if there wasn't an in-game time to submit. The GTA IL boards will almost certainly never reach the popularity that these boards have seen, mainly because these boards didn't exist at the height of these games' popularity."

You are ignoring so much of gaming/tech history when you make this statement Kyle. It had nothing to do with the timing system or the date of board creation. Let us compare 2000ish and 2016 2000: No ubiquitous broadband internet. Effectively no capture cards. No ubiquitous RTA system nor a way to upload it with video. Few games in existence. Even fewer good games in existence. Even less access to games as gaming audience was younger and thus had less money.

2016: We have access to tens of thousands of games at our fingertips. We have cheap effectively capture cards that can stream gameplay to everyone on the planet. We have a RTA system that is so easy to use a child could use it, and they do. I can upload, in real time, my gameplay with ease. We have archives of every amazing game that has ever been developed over the past few decades and I can play them whenever I want to. The gaming audience today has a fucktonne of money.

Why do these differences matter? In the year 2000 when you finished a game, that was it unless you invented a way to entertain yourself within the game. You didn't have other games. THIS is why individual level boards were developed for these games, it was a different time. You had to make your own fun.

Compare this to today. When most people finish a game, people just move onto the next thing. For those who are still interested in the game after completion, and want to play more in the game, they don't need to make their own fun. They don't need to run the missions over and over. They go play the Online game. I can assure you that if there existed a million easily accessed games when golden eye 007 came out, including an online golden eye 007 world, that leaderboard would be as empty as our own. If there were people who WANTED to run GTA V ILs, they would have made the board earlier. There was nothing stopping anyone from doing so. The boards late creation SHOWS the lack of interest and articulates how much gaming has changed. Even that 007 board is likely dead or at least much much less accessed compared to before.

"What you've described in your post is exactly what Rockstar chose to do. Why did they decide 30+ missions shouldn't include a time stat? I have no idea. It's absolutely awful design, but it's what they chose. " Rockstar had no interest in speed runners or recording mission times. They were developing an online world with 10000 recorded timed levels. They were not thinking about people competing in offline missions. They were making achievements to tick the box. All games need achievements -.- You are arguing that rockstar's arbitrary achievement system, made with no consideration for us or recording mission times, should constrain us. I consider this madness. You are arguing that of the countless games in existence, NONE should have individual level times unless the developer put a timer in it. I can't even begin to understand such thinking.

"An RTA time will be close to the accurate time, but never will be 100% accurate, and that alone should be enough to validate having only the missions with a time stat on the board. " Why did they use the in-game timer in 2000? They couldn't upload videos of their runs and RTA timers only work if you have a video of your run. The RTA timers are not even necessary for us anymore. In the year 2000, they needed an easy verification that could not be tampered with. The in-game time provided that. It was accurate only to the second but they had no other option. Us? We don't need a timer. I can take any one of my runs, look at the first frame and tell you within a hundredth of a second how long it took me to complete the run. That is the magic of recording video. We use the timer because it gives us information while we are doing the run. We can do the math from first frame to last frame for accuracy within a frame. You are asking us to use an in-game timer that is limited to seconds...that is less accurate. The RTA timer ultimately is just used because we are too lazy to look at the frames in the dam video.

"I can't think of any other popular IL boards that use RTA timing" That is because the popular individual level runs were made at a time when that was effectively all that was available. You are doing it again, arguing that we should do whatever everyone else does because that is what they do. If we could go back and give them what we have now to record our runs they would certainly use it over what they used.

"People are attracted to 100% accurate timing for very short speedruns/ILs. " Excellent. It is a good thing we don't allow anyone to submit a time without a video, so we have a semi-permanent copy of their time within a frame. We have that, with or without the ingame timer. I would also ask how you came to this conclusion of what people are attracted to, largely because you are asking for a LESS accurate timer not a more accurate one.

"IL boards are synonymous with using an in-game timer (usually an end of mission screen)." See reasons stated above.

"Continuing to use RTA will just set this board down the wrong path" I don't even understand what this statement means. If you look at those other IL leaderboards, next to no one is submitting. Please, just get rid of the any % and the any% NMS categories in the individual level section and allow those of us who run this game to get back to doing so. ¤redacted¤

I have been up for 20 hours. I am tired. I am going to bed. Good night.

"RTA begins with an arbitrary starting point and end point" How so? It starts when the game starts the mission, it ends on the mission complete screen. Technically speaking, on the very first frame after the load it starts and on the very first frame of "mission complete" it ends. If there were ever two times that were extremely close, we would simply look more closely at the videos to determine a winner. This has only happened once in the entire history of this board I think. The missions have a clear start and a clear end with or without a time on the screen. The timing start and end that we use is the exact same one the game uses but on every mission instead of those arbitrarily chosen by the designers.

It is not about practicing every mission it is about the contest on the individual missions. Let me put your point in another context. Let us say we have a racing game with 70 tracks. You are a developer. You say to your player base "I am going to remove 30 tracks because I don't like the way they are timed, but don't worry, you still have 40 tracks to play on". Doesn't that sound...odd...to you? I think there would be more questions of "Why can't I submit times for 30 of the missions?" than there would be questions about anything else.

Let us run over where we disagree. I value function or uniformity, thus I don't care about other boards. I don't think the timing is arbitrary, and I wouldn't necessarily care even if it was because that it is irrelevant if it is upheld by consensus. I know nothing of the other GTAs but are you sure that the change in timing was ...actually significant ... in the popularity growth of the boards? I am having a hard time believing people went "Wait...I don't need to split twice! Sign me up!".

What it comes down to for me is "Does it make sense that we should not have records for 'Franklin and Lamar', but we should have them for 'Masks'?". The first mission is quite skill based and interesting. The second takes two-three seconds to complete. Your argument is that Masks is deserving because the developers arbitrarily decided to stick a timer there for an achievement. I don't think the developers arbitrary determination of achievements should determine what missions we keep records for.

I feel we might be somewhat over complicating things. What happens in other games or other GTAs does not matter for the purposes of this game. Uniformity is neither a necessarily nor perhaps even a desirable trait in this case.

What the board ultimately attempts to do is allow people to compare and race in individual missions. The reason why I do not like your proposal is that it effectively removes 30 tracks with effectively no gain. There is nothing necessarily better about the in-game timer bar that it makes verification easier. Given how few people submit anyway, you likely won't have many to verify. Additionally, you will have even less when you remove the other two categories :P If there is even a dispute over a time, it does not take much effort to check.

No one likes any% except me and I was the one who asked for it to be removed :P We can tell no one would complain about any% NMS removal because in the 3? years since this game has come out there has not been a single entry into that category that was not a classic % run up until I did it a few days ago.

When it comes right down to it, the person who is most likely going to run each of the ILs the most is me. No one else is probably going to give two shits either way.

If we want to be democratic, we should put it up for a vote but I would be very surprised that anyone who runs this game would care enough to vote bar me, Toriks and Havii.

While it is a good idea, I would prefer that no missions be removed. Removing 30 whole missions seems a tad bit extreme when the only benefit is a different timing system.

It would also make things a tad confusing, given that Any% is associated with mission skips and taxis, but specifically for ILs any% would not have you be able to use either. It would be "Individual Levels using Classic % rules" but we would just call it "Any % Individual Levels". Simply removing the other categories maintains the category meaning consistency.

I think just removing both any% and any% NMS categories and writing the classic% rules would be better. It would be something else entirely if fewer missions would be effected but if we went down that route it would remove almost half of the missions, I think that is too many.