Delaware, USAYou really do not read, or you just are choosing to ignore what I'm saying. One version is faster than the other, that's what I'm saying. I frankly don't care if one RTA is possible on x version but not on another. Whatever is fastest, is fastest, point blank. If you're concerned about a level playing field on pc vs console, you have to also be concerned about the pc vs pc even playing field. A playing field that would be worsened with RTA. I have already said before that Loner's PC has loads as slow as a console, so he would be at just as much of a disadvantage. But in switching to rta over igt, we just accept that for the sake of a cleaner board etc. If all the top runs end up as PC, then that's fine because that's just how RTA works. Better hardware/versions of a game wins out.
Agree on switching to rta and merging the platforms. Just have a platform variable to show who has the best time on what platform.
Again, RTA is inherently an unfair method of timing, so you cannot logically be in favor of switching to RTA, while also claiming you are interested in fairness for console runners.
you need to do highlights otherwise yeah your livestream videos get deleted. you're also not using super legendary dark knight so that probably plays into it.
PeterAfro had a twitch and some runs in dmc1 + dmc2, but that twitch account is gone now and he's under a different name. dunno about the other guy though. probably quite a beatable time since the run is from 2015.
So the TL;DR is this:
-All runs now require an RTA timer to displayed (Livesplit, console stream timer, etc.) -PC runs require input displays (gamepad viewer, nohboard, etc.)
Truth be told, we probably should have implemented these changes after the cheating scandal with Snawk, but another WR submission came up recently wherein the runner not only ignored our "WR submission requires Twitch vod" rule but, similar to Snawk, had no RTA timer being displayed nor an input display. So now our hand has basically been forced to require this from all runners, veteran and new alike. Unfortunate that it's come to this but it is what it is. All runs that were verified prior to this rule change will be grandfathered in, so no need to worry about your previous PBs. But moving forward this is the standard we'll all be held to pretty much indefinitely.
Here's some links to input displays: Nohboard -https://obsproject.com/forum/resources/nohboard.44/
Gamepad Viewer -https://gamepadviewer.com/
Here's some links to timers: Livesplit (recommended) -https://livesplit.org/
Others -http://www.speedrunslive.com/tools/
Here's an example of some layouts from maxy and myself.
You don't even necessarily have to have splits like we do; an overall timer will suffice.
That's about it. Much love, everyone.
Decided to lax a bit on muted audio in runs. Rules now read: If you are listening to music outside of game audio, it must not overpower the game audio. Obviously there's a line to this (don't submit a vod that's fully muted), but if like 3 minutes is muted then it's nbd. Everyone that's been running has been really grinding to get better and it shows, so in light of that, I think it's only fair to pay it forward and not have people worry about their music getting their audio muted. We all can only listen to Devil Trigger, Subhuman, and Crimson Cloud so much haha.
Enjoy, y'all!
This is kind of a point of contention atm, like Xen said. The general problem with NG+ categories in DMC games not named DMC5 is that the run becomes a big joke because of abuse of the currency system. This allows you to just use tons of holy waters and devil stars to powerhouse your way through the game and not really have to do anything interesting. However, that does mean we could see how fast this game COULD be given no restrictions.
Here's a run I did with no items in ng+ for proof of concept, and tbh i had a lot of fun doing it.
At the time I made this, there was discussion surrounding the category but because of the split in how it should be ruled, we all kind of just agreed to disagree and leave the matter at that. There's also not enough general interest there to garner making it a new cata, especially for all costumes and difficulties.
To summarize
Pros are basically: -Access to all weapons + movement tech from start -More health and dt -No need to deal with mission ranks -Can be the fastest category easily
Cons -to be interesting it has to be restricted
Hey all,
I'm a new mod for ZoE2, along with UnKnown_Drive. You've probably noticed that the leaderboards have been given a significant facelift in terms of aesthetic and some changes have happened. While you can thank Drive for the aesthetics, I'll go over the functionality/submission changes + additions:
1. All versions of ZoE2 are now ranked on the same leaderboards under RTA. This is the big one. Essentially, the current community came to an agreement that it would be best to unify all versions. This allowed us to get rid of a bunch of categories that had 0-1 runs in them and help the board look cleaner overall. Don't worry, you can still indicate which version you're running along with your platform (so you can still have the best time on that version), but it won't be ranked separately. Whatever ends up being the fastest version will just be the definitive version to run in the end. Hopefully this change will foster competition amongst runners and help us all strive to figure out what the fastest version of ZoE2 really is.
2. NG+ Jehuty variations are subcategories All the NG+ frames function differently enough to still warrant keeping them separate. Naked would probably (obviously) edge out the other versions so the variations will still be ranked separately.
3. Jehuty Ver. 2 category now exists This was something I felt should have been on the board from jump, so there it is. Ver. 2 functions a bit different from Damaged and Naked; curious to see what will happen with the cata if/when more time is put into it. Get in there and do some Ver. 2 runs!
4. NG+ Rules have been made more clear In most of the current runs for NG+, players have been starting with no subweapons, even though in the previous rules it stated you could start with all subweapons. So moving forward, the rule phrasing will be that the run starts on "sub-weapon equip", indicating that you can start with all subweapons. This clarification should help newer runs, and really push some of the NG+ times to be faster.
5. Still no Extreme category I had thought about adding this, honestly. For transparency's sake, my modding/speedrun background is primarily in the Devil May Cry series, and my general observation is, typically speaking, runners don't tend to stick with the harder difficulty categories because they're longer and well, very punishing to grind out. Their longevity is questionable, and that's if there's any interest at all (DMC5 did not have anyone mention DMD interest for 6 months, as a recent example). I'm definitely open to having the discussion to put Extreme on the boards, as I'm sure the other mods are too. Personally I just don't want it to be one and done times, but I'll definitely go with whatever the community decides.
That's about it. Any questions, feel free to ask! Much love.
No need to apologize, man. I really respect your play and dedication to those categories, honestly. If there were more interest I would absolutely consider adding them to the board despite my reservations. Thank you for bringing it up, you were owed a proper answer given the work you've put in.
DMD is just a problematic category imo because with Faust it's just a longer version of SoS with more dying for a few more red orb revives. Faustlsss there's even more deaths for red orb revives you can work in, so for the category to not be cancer/redundant, we'd then have to limit red orb usage to zero. And then from there gold orb becomes the meta to gain back DT and such. Given those tools, what do you do? Require people to run deathless? That's also offputting. I've said for a while that if you have to heavily restrict a category for it to be interesting/ require the "skill" that people expect out of it, then it's probably just not a good idea.
And HAH is totally redundant imo because it's just SoS with a no damage requirement.
Given that, like meka said, we had no interest and no runs created in either of these categories for half a year, there was no reason to put them up. Couple that with red orb revive being really stupid even on SoS? I shudder to think how dumb it would be on DMD.
Just dumping some notes that I have.
Shop costs
New Moves
Fire Combos -Forward Chain Roll: 200 -Quake Crash: 400 -Fire Cutter: 2,000 -Devil's Headbutt: 4,000 -Hyper Spin Chain: 6,000 -Hellfireball: 8,000
Light Combos -Forward Chain Slow: 200 -Helicopter Slice: 400 -Inferno Kick: 2,000 -Barge Spin: 4,000 -Spinning Top: 6,000 -Comet: 8,000
Heavy Combos -Double Handed Spin: 200 -Fist Dive: 400 -Super Quake: 2,000 -Plasma Shotgun: 4,000 -Backdraft: 6,000 -Hell Punch: 8,000
Specials
Health Boosts -400 -800 -1,600 -3,200
Spirit Boosts -400 -800 -1,600 -3,200
Link Charge -Solar: 2,000 -Omega: 15,000 Shotgun -Red Hot Hellfire Shotgun: 2,000 -White Hot Hellfire Shotgun: 15,000
Bike Hellshot -Homing Shot: 3,000 -Double Homing Shot: 4,000 -Triple Homing Shot: 5,000
Buy List Priorities -Devil's Headbutt: 6,600 total (Need ASAP, should theoretically have it by the end of 1st stage?) -Triple Homing Shot: 12,000 total (Need by 2nd bike level) -White Hot Hellfire Shotgun: 17,000 total (Need after other two upgrades) -Max Spirit Boost: 6,000 total (After Shotgun) -Omega Link Charge: 17,000 (Last Upgrade)
Ghost Rider combat: -Guard cancel shoulder -Guard cancel shotgun in cases where shoulder is unwieldy -Link charge for quick room clears?
Blade: -square square triangle combo seems really strong -apparently slide and divekick have transferable iframes? need to look into it more.
None of this changes, btw, that IL boards need to go since they're empty and have been forever. Also I'm going to route Blade at some point.
That's really on a case by case basis. In a case where the game is not really active, I've seen plenty of boards that put emulators in there along with the hardware runs (shinobi, castlevania lament of innocence, and devil may cry 2 to name a few). I've also been a part of seen plenty of boards where emus are frowned because the game is very serious and/or active, and I understand to some it's still kind of a grey area for something like PS2. My point is mostly that this is definitely a case where including emulators won't look bad because it's just another way for people to be able to access the game. A game that has very little traffic and is not serious.
Currently the only people to have run this game in any capacity are you and epicdudeguy, and these runs were about 4 years apart, both for NG+ (epicdudeguy ran GBA but who cares). the only thing that changes by combining versions is that you're 2nd instead of 1st on a game run by 2 people, and you still have the fastest times on both PSP and PS2. In order to make the argument for competition being a factor, you have to have at least 2 things.
-knowledge of a large discrepancy in versions -competition
Atm we have neither of these, and even then sometimes that doesn't matter because there's nothing to be gained from splitting up a board that much. Especially a game that gets as little traffic as this.
Once I finish my casual playthrough, I'll be doing some runs, looking into this game more (NG Any% category) and see what I can find in terms of what should be the best timing method etc. Frankly since your PS2 time's RTA is lower than the IGT, it's pretty safe to assume imo that the IGT is inaccurate in some way. What that's due to or how inaccurate it is, I'm not sure atm.
Some feedback too: -Don't see a need to separate by platform (except for the obvious PS2 vs. GBA), just makes the boards bloated and invites people to go get free WRs then never come back. In the interest of being transparent, yes the only way I have to play the game is through ps2 emulator. Whatever ends up being the fastest version is just the fastest version. -Don't see a need for ILs atm since the game has barely any traffic and all those categories are just sitting empty anyway.
Looked into doing because frankly I hate the idea of waiting around for half a run but saw the mod only skips like 4-5 cutscenes + saves only 15-20m. Wonder if it would be possible to increase the workrate of the in-game cutscenes to perhaps effectively "fast-forward" through them. This wouldn't completely eliminate them but would def cut down on a lot of time because this game has a bunch of narrative fluff. As to how that would be implemented in a run, I've no idea atm other than a script, but that's out of my area of expertise.
Instead of having the main tabs be the category type with the platform next to it (i.e. New Game PC and New Game Console), I've changed all the main tabs to just be the category, and then the platform type will be the subcategory (PC and Console), followed by the difficulty of your choice. This reduced the number of tabs we had and should make adding more categories (if that ever happens) look cleaner in the future. Enjoy, everyone!
I'm gonna add Faustless BP later today after work. I was tired and forgot to add it yesterday.
Okay so here's what I've come up with:
Regarding zero orb start, I've done some math in the last couple days regarding Faust costs and while I initially thought this would be a good idea, I don't think it will actually solve anything. There is simply too much orb gain and with the ability to disable and enable different levels of Faust at will, Dante would still be basically all Faust, even on SoS. So it looks like we'll have to go forward with just Faustless. I should note that ofc the current NG+ category will remain as the main NG+ and will allow Faust.
As far as the following categories: -Glitchless -S Rank -No Damage -Hell and Hell
These are the type of categories that I meant by "arbitrary." For DMC5 specifically, they don't actually add anything or change the run at a fundamental level, they are just slower for the sake of being slower and wanting to play a certain way. So, not gonna add these.
Tek and I were going to run All Orbs + Secret Missions (which could have fundamentally different routing), but we're both in the middle of optimizing our main categories atm so we decided against it, especially after no one else seemed interested.
So I'll add NG+ Faustless. PC and Console will be subcategories underneath the tab, and we'll have Human, DH, and SoS be the difficulties. Have fun, everyone. Please be sure that you run and work on this category though, or it won't be around forever. Not interested in having dead catas.
