Hello!
Since before I joined here the rules has always stated that the time starts from "when you see the menu". How much of the menu has never been specified. I believe we need to clarify that in light of the news strategies we have started using, such as switching character before the menu appears.
My suggestion is that we simply change it to the first frame "GO TO" is seen on.
I've been comparing some of the submissions and I can see that there is a small variation (which might be caused by inputs?) in the number of frames between GO TO and CD PLAYER.
I didn't go through all videos, but from what I've covered it seems that the most common outcomes is either 9 frames or 4 frames.
ness7or9 goto 1631, cd 1640 (9 frames)
niss3 goto 2007, cd 2016 (9 frames)
captnshrimpy, goto 2675, cd 2687 (12 frames)
howdouplay, goto 1594, cd 1598 (4 frames)
joka, goto 1241, cd 1250 (9 frames)
prof.retro, goto 1106, cd 1110 (4 frames)
mr.k, goto 1261, cd 1265 (4 frames)
If we can agree on this detail, I would say that we leave everything as it is and only re-time old runs if there is a "close competition" in terms of leaderboard positions.
Another alternative that we could use that does not involve the menu is when Dave goes into attention. It would be closer to a 30 frame change, from the same videos I checked the time between Dave goes into attention and the moment GO TO appears is between 18 and 20 frames.
Let me know what you guys think!
I was under the impression we all settled on adding 8 frames after the first frame that GO TO appears 2 years ago, so that's how I've been timing everything since then whether I switch characters at the start of a run or not.
https://www.speedrun.com/maniac_mansion_nes/forums/scy6f#9fuuc < see this post
I'm fine with whatever makes it easier for everyone. Starting on the first frame of GO TO is fine, or when Dave goes to attention. I start my timer manually on Dave attention as that seems to be the easiest visual cue for me and it's in the ballpark of actual time start, and then I always end up having to frame count anyway on a PB.
I watched a couple videos, it appears to me that the 9 frame+ times you are seeing appear to be pre-buffering the first movement command before the menu appears (Pressing B then A on first screen load before menu appears). The 4 frame times look to not be buffering a movement command (Only pressing B on first screen load before menu), and then doing the movement input when the menu loads. This checks out in my mind, as I've noticed things like this during game play, random extra inputs slow things down, so I guess it would make sense that the early inputs are delaying the menu from appearing. The 12 frame, I suspect may have 1 B press and 2 A presses.
Is the issue that some runs still do not select "New Kid" before the menu loads? Because I feel like the current method of finding the frame where "Go To" appears, then adding 8 frames works fine for any run where "New Kid" is selected before full menu load. I believe we decided on 8 frames because that's the average most old route runs would take to load the full menu, which was a way to keep old route times accurate while timing the new route as accurately. When the CD Player appears should only matter for runs that do not select "New Kid" early.
But with that said, you approve most of the runs Niss3 so whatever makes it easiest for you as long as it's consistent across the board. Just let me know so I can make sure any runs I validate follow the same guidelines.
Rather than "make it easy", I would prefer to be more meticulous for top competetive runs. To be honest I didn't think that much about it last time we discussed it, and I'm sorry I didn't adress it earlier!
I will update the rules like this:
Time begins when "GO TO" appears and ends after the entire command menu has disappeared. (Note; runs prior to 2025-MAY-10 have been timed differently and might vary 4 to 12 frames from this method)
Sounds good to me. I feel like maybe at some point in time, the top 3 times should be down to the ms. Because timing and everything can be such a fickle beast in most of these runs now, ms will really come into play at some point as we'll be out of free, easy time.
Seems simple enough. Just to make sure I understand: we start frame counting on first frame "Go To" is fully visible now?
