Hello everyone.

I was looking at doing some IL speedruns again and noticed that the ILs are dominated by the old Sgt. Hammer. Since she was reworked, it is no longer possible to come anywhere near her old times (She seems to be about 30 seconds slower), and it seems unfair to have a leaderboard that you can't compete with.

What are your thoughts on creating a new category for ILs which contain these obsolete runs? So all of the current Sgt Hammer runs from before patch 2.29.3 be moved to obsolete (that is the last patch in which Sgt. Hammer had damage changes.)

Also the 2.29.7 patch increased the health of keeps which will also impact times.

Thoughts?

I'm totally down for moving now impossible times to a "legacy" section. I think it would be disingenuous to remove the times since they were done completely legally, however currently since its nearly impossible to break those records, it's unlikely that new runners would try to compete with them. By moving them to a legacy section, or some similar alternative (possibly based off of version numbers, like you said), It could help new runners to attempt the runs and compete.

I'm only cool with it if it's actually impossible... also new heroes could always make it beatable.

Yeah on a second take, I think most the times are extremly beatable. I was under the impression most of them were sub 2 minutes, but a lot of them are 4 minutes which I know for sure I could beat with sylvanis or zul'jin.

On a related note, it looks like its time for me to run through all the maps for that.

btw many runs i have beaten already with sylvanas. please check the single levelns ;) also that the towers are gone is sometimes also good for speedruns because it opens up more ways.

and the 5v5 ai times are btw also the patched Hammer ;)

The thing is it isn't about another hero being able to beat it eventually, it is when a hero has the #1 time and is then made considerably worse. It seems unfair to have a time that COULD be completely unbeatable by that same hero.

Also I saw your single level sylv times, I don't think she would be as good on the levels without siege guys, you really need to use hammer. I have actually been working through the ILs getting good times and wasn't sure about maps like BoE, Infernal shrines, towers of doom, and warhead junction where there is a really good time with the old hammer.

How about I give you guys a few days to try and set a good time on Battlefield of Eternity for example, see how close you can get to the old hammer times. If you can't get close then I will create a legacy category.

Also is it okay if I verify my own runs? I thought it would be kinda shady doing it so I was waiting for the other mod to get back. I could mod one of you guys to do it :P

yea you can verify your own runs by yourself i will cry loudly if i see misstakes Kappa

so in the upcoming week i try some times on boe shrines towers of doom and warhead and post my times here with videos (because i have the WR i cant verify the new runs atm, if you do legacy categgorys i would be proud to use these times :D )

My best BoE at the moment after a few tries is a 4:37 with hammer. It feels so slow compared to the 4 minute record :P

my first run BoE now was 4.36. i try 1-2more but i guess 4.30 is best you can do with new hammer

infernal shrines 4.33

and towers of doom 4.50

So you would agree on the legacy category?

I'll try it in a few days

yea for the maps where a hero had profits from earlier patches. if someone get a new WR on those maps with another char (or hammer gets a new patch) the times can be included again?

I believe that if a hero that has a time on the leaderboard receives an update which affects any mechanic of the hero which is used in the speedrun, then the time should be moved to legacy.

If Hammer or Sylv are ever changed in the future we could always make a post discussing the changes and whether they would impact speedrun times. But as it stands right now, even if we ignore hero changes, there have been so many changes to minions, mercs, towers, forts, and keeps in 2.29.3 and 2.29.7 that all runs before them should be legacy.

Im down for that as well. Although the times may be able to be beaten right now, it seems unfair that a run which was done patches ago and might be unoptimal is very difficult to beat optimally right now. Should this effect the older runs in the tournament run categories? (Specialist%, Assasin% etc.)

Also It's totally fine to verify your own runs. I mod a few other games and its completely acceptable. It's pretty risky to approve a run that was cheated in or suspicious, so it's unlikely anyone would approve their own times that they cheated in. (Not implying you do, ofc)

If they were done pre 2.29.7 then yeah they should arguably be moved, even though they are not near the top of the leaderboard.