Forums  /  Grand Theft Auto  /  Renaming any% to "Beat the game"


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  m00nchile

I try to remain civil and on topic, but I have to admit karl, this arguing over semantics is a bit silly. You can't say any% doesn't imply game completion when the term was invented to mean just that. This conversation might as well just devolve to why are colors named the way they are, then why do we even call them colors, then why is the verb "call" used to imply meaning etc etc.

 
  karl__k

The preference of "Beat the game" is just something I'd been starting to notice these past few months and as I agreed with that I decided to make this thread to see how people feel about the subject and surely enough many people shared my opinion, many did not. But I guess I'm just being silly for thinking that concise leaderboard semantics are worth any discussion. I'm sorry about that.

 
  m00nchile

I just said "any% does not imply game completion" is a fallacy, no need to play the hurt feelings card.

 
  karl__k

No, you also said something else. My opinion on what any% implies is explained in OP. Your opinion differs from it, I understand that.

 
  m00nchile

The meaning of any% isn't an opinion though, you thinking it's not an appropriate name for the category is an opinion, but what it means is set in stone.

 
  karl__k

I'm not questioning it's meaning as I know it's meaning has be established for years as "Beat the game". I just think that it's a badly constructed term which direct wording has to be "any percentage" which only vaguely describes that the player finishes the game with any number of completion percentage. I just think that the term was badly created and should be veered away from not only because of reasons I said before but also it has inspried numerous bad category names like trevor%, classic% etc.

 
  Molotok

This thread gets a rating 'R' for retarded. ))

 
  karl__k

Okay, somebody lock it up then, I honestly didn't think it was going to go this route.

 
  m00nchile

Karl, I already gave the "telemark" example, another would be renaming "offside" to "ahead of all opposing players but one at the moment a pass takes place, unless the player in possession passes backwards" in football. "Offside" is also a vague term, people who don't watch football are always confused by it. Point is, (again, repeating myself), lingo is part of the activity, and "Beat the game" wouldn't be any clearer to people who are new to speedrunning. "The RC helicopter mission was so hard for me, I can't wait to see you beat it" "That mission isn't needed" "But I thought you wanted to beat the game, doesn't that mean finish everything?". A term is established, not just in the GTA community, but the whole speedrunning community and it's not ambiguous, unless you go out of your way to make it seem ambiguous.

Derpeth likes this. 
  blacklev

"beat the game" is also an established term in speedrunning.

if any% means "beat the game with any amount of percentage", then, because of the very definition, the percentage count doesn't matter at all, so we can take it out, that leaves us with "beat the game".

when we explain any% to new people we go down the same route every time, we start from "any% means..." and we essentially say it's "...beat the game as fast as you can".

Because of these two things ("beat the game" is also used in speedrunning + we always end up explaining that "any%= beat the game") we might as well switch to "beat the game"

edit: if someone thinks that "beat the game" means "doing everything", then they are just wrong and we can't do much about that. and anyways, this still happens all the time, even with the category being "any%" (i.e. SA and Zero missions)

edit 2: saying that "what you said is a fallacy" doesn't actually say anything and certainly doesn't falsify the argument, you should at least specify what kind of fallacy it is
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies)

 
  m00nchile

So your answer to an argument about semantics is to argue about semantics even more and derail the thread in the process?

 
  blacklev

So far the voting is...

A: 6 votes
B: 7 votes + Kyle
C: 1 vote (S.)

Others:
Gael voted for RTA being the main category even though RTA is a timing method and not a category
ShadArt agreed with Powdinet but didn't actually vote for A
Molotok and f1 argued that the whole tread is retarded but didn't vote for C

Since no one else seems to want to vote, it is essentially over, and according to the voting, Any% should stay for now since it won the voting by 1 vote.

I'd like to argue against Molotok and f1 because 14 people took the time to vote and it was pretty close as well, so this couldn't have been THAT retarded, honestly.

S. likes this. 
  ModGaël

RTA isn't a timing method

 
  m00nchile

Gael, as far as I know, RTA stands for Real Time Attack, and that would make it a timing method. For example, 3, VC and SA any% categories are RTA, while LCS and VCS any% are IGT.

 
  Tirean

RTA basically means that your timer must be running from the start of the game all the way to the end of the game. RTA timing method basically allows you to do things such as quick save and quick loading.

IGT is just a method of finding out how fast you were going with a different type of timing.

SS is basically the same as IGT but with a timer like Livesplit, SS does not allow quick saves and quick loads.

Also why is the GTA community trying to argue and nitpick at everything? Getting a little ridiculous right now. Feels like everyone is starting to hit puberty and can't control their emotions so they trying to lash out at every little thing.

Stop that shit, seriously.

 
  guywith

B

This is like saying we should change the name of All Robberies because we don't do the mission "The Job".

Quote

Any% doesn't imply completion of the game.

I don't how this would help your case since you wouldn't submit an incomplete run or a run with no ending whatsoever.

While we are at it, let's change 100% to "Beat the game entirely" or completely.

 
  ModGaël

Real Time Attack means you complete it in one sitting which is what a speedrun for current standards, as opposed to Time Attack which is pretty much ILs
the term RTA for speedruns has been used since the year 2000, long before anyone did "any%" runs of anything and is still used today in the japanese community ( http://live.nicovideo.jp/search?sort=recent&keyword=RTA )

 
  S.

RTA isn't a timing method indeed. RTA is an approach you take towards achieving a goal. (As opposed to doing it segmented, or SS, which might be defined differently than RTA). The timing method would be "real time" (so without the 'A'. Examples of other timing methods include: time without loads, in-game time)

RTA as a category name is dumb since it still doesn't explain what the fuck you're doing. It just says you're attacking a real time. If RTA has been used as a category name for longer than any%, then I say we abolish that first since it has been a problem for longer, and stop focusing on abolishing 'any%'. Because what are we trying to achieve in real time? I can achieve In-game 100% without finishing KYFC/EOTL/TE and it will still be RTA, and I have done so in the past.

RTA should be a suffix/prefix to the category name at most, which isn't needed for GTA since nobody does anything else (except for VCS, but it still isn't needed because nobody uses RT-timing there) (and if you look at HL2 for example you'll notice that there's an RTA and an SS split, same goal, different approach. (although technically HL2 uses RTA minus loadings.))

ModGaël and blacklev like this. 

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