BANEMU
Leaderboard should be updated to either Hide emulator runs or ban them, loading is faster on all unofficial means that play this game, we can't time by real time and allow this imo, unless we allow IGT as a comparative measure
given the casualness of the RTA leaderboards and lack of tight competition I'm very much inclined to not care about the load time differences; RTA GX runs can basically be seen as miscellaneous runs compared to the actual IL competition, so personally I'm heavily in favor of continuing to allow emu. If it ends up being a problem in the future where 2 players set close competitive times and 1 of them is on emu making it faster IGT with slower RTA, then I'd be happy to revisit the topic, but given that the vast majority of the game time (while racing) runs at matching play speeds since console produces extremely minimal lag, I don't see this ever ending up an issue
Being willing to make minor/insignificant accommodations to maintain a more robust leaderboard is significantly different than not putting care into it, but given the very low participation on the leaderboards I think it shows for itself that there's not much community interest. If you're arguing that there aren't enough runs and so we should just nuke the whole leaderboard then I suppose we could have that conversation, but I don't think that's what you're trying to say.
At this time I just see no reason to unnecessarily constrict an already scarce leaderboard for the sake of completely undemonstrated competitive integrity issues; like I said if it becomes a problem I'd be happy to revisit the conversation.
Hello, this post is regarding standardization and the subject being Artfuls Story mode veryhard run (18:51) and CGN Story mode verhard run (21:40).
Everyone on the Story mode leaderboard (as far as I can tell) is playing with load times and is judged via real time. Artfuls run was judged in real time as well, but his load times were minimal to nonexsistant, leading to a massive timegap between 2nd (CGN 21:40) and 1st (Artful 18:51).
I've played: on disc (GC and Wii), on an ISO (ripped from said disc) and used usb loaderGX and Nintendon't, and I have not experienced load times as quick as Artful did- or any change in load times at all between them.
Please consider converting Story mode runs to the sum of all levels (this would entail every run on the leadboards), still requiring be filmed as a single segment. Other possibilities should be considered/discussed as well.
This would still lead to Artful being 1st (I've compared Artfuls chapter times against CGN via Excel) as this isn't a question of if he won properly or not. This is more to remove questions, variables and advantages/disadvantages.
The only somewhat problematic thing about switching to IGT is that the JP version of the game does not display the clear time at the end of the chapter. We would either be forcing them to play on a non-JP version of the game or estimate their times somehow.
If we do want to continue with the switch, what should be the penalty for retrying?
Perhaps the switch to IGT should be global, not just for the story mode categories.
I think switching to IGT is definitely the way to go. As for penalties, I think restarting a chapter should give a flat rate of 30 seconds added to your IGT.
The biggest issue is absolutely the JP version not showing the mission clear time which is a shame. And also a really weird version difference??? Theoretically, I think it should be possible for a modded Japanese wii to use either a USA/PAL version of the disc or iso. Its just a shame we would have to resort to that. If it isn't possible then having split categories would be the way to go.
I would ask Zeroken his opinions on the matter seeing as he is currently the only JP runner for story mode at the moment.
Here's discussion from Zeroken and Valyssa regarding this. I'm not sure if having the penalty for retrying be simply the in game timer when you pause. Maybe it can be taken advantage of to try to nail a difficult strategy that happens at the very beginning of a run. Maybe a minimum time penalty should be considered?
Zeroken — 12/02/2021 ・I think it is desirable to compete in IGT. ・One idea for the NTSC-J version is to check the frame just before the goal to get a close clear time. ・Regarding retries, how about adding a penalty, or prohibiting retries in the speedrun like Metroid Prime speedrun? ※I'm writing this using computer translation, sorry Valyssa — 12/02/2021 If the recording is 60 FPS then that's doable yeah I don't think we should probibit retries, that would invalidate existing runs and create an entry barrier Zeroken — 12/02/2021 or how about adding a game time when retrying a mission, until the mission failed/pause menu is opened? Valyssa — 12/02/2021 I think that's the best idea yeah. So if you reset after 10 seconds, you only get a 10 second penalty. We just need the video quality to be high enough to always see the timer
I've started calculating IGT for the story mode runs and editing them into the runs. If anyone can chip in that would be helpful.
We probably want to sort by IGT, starting with the story modes. CGN's any difficulty story mode run has a faster IGT than supersanic's despite CGN's real-time being a second slower.
As for the Japanese story runs, I suppose if the video is 30 FPS, we take the time on the final frame before it crosses the line, and then add 2 frames to the recorded time. If its 60 FPS, add 1 frame. The disadvantage at most for 30 FPS videos would be at most 18 frames, or 0.3 of a second, but realistically the disadvantage would be more or less half that on average if I had to guess. Maybe there's some flaw with doing it this way though, or should one frame be added for 30 FPS, and 0.5 frame for 60 FPS? What do you guys think?
As for retries, 30 seconds per retry seems reasonable considering the potential runs you can get in chapters 2 and 9. Perhaps 20 seconds is still okay. If your IGT when you pause is greater then we'll add that time instead. As long retrying means you have pretty much no shot of getting the IGT WR then I think that's for the best.
I could help chip in, and I'm glad this topic is being brought up again!
Yeah it would definitely be a hassle to record IGT for Japanese runs but if the timer has a consistent time it goes up by the frame after crossing the finish line then we could definitely use that.
20 seconds for retries should be fine. Its really only there as a failsafe for ch.2 or 9. Any serious attempts would be going for no retries anyways.
I would like to add however that I am adamant about the run starting at ch.1, and then having them be done in order. It just makes sense, its the story mode after all. Plus it would just be lame to grind out World Record Attempts on ch.9 and then have that become a story mode speedrun when you clear the most difficult chapter. Plus it pretty much invalidates all the other runs that had ch.9 done last.
The machine's speed and position influence the final time. The milliseconds can be any of the possible digits for it.
I see no issue with enforcing the order of the chapters. Don't think there are any runs that deviate from that in any GX leaderboard currently.
Ok! I went through the Story Mode category with a big overhaul. I updated the rules, I updated all the runs to their IGT using the new rules.
I couldn't update Valyssa's VH run or Kevinherofree's run on Normal because both videos seem to be down on twitch. RIP I also had to download E-Dragon's Run on normal because it seems to be glitched out or something on Youtube and wouldn't show me the full video.
In terms of rankings, nothing really changes on the Very Hard side. But we got some doozies on the Any Difficulty side.
- CGN is back on top.
- Valyssa shoots back up to 3rd and Medzy falls down to 5th place. Despite Medzy's run being faster than E-Dragons by 36 seconds in Real time, the run itself is actually only faster by just under 1 In-Game second.
- Aeri and FalcoGX swap places.
- In my Very Hard, First Person, under the influence run I reset 25 times including having to redo Chapter 1 for skipping a cutscene. Figuring out the IGT for that was neat.
But there you have it! Any questions or concerns, I'm all ears.
With the recent release of the Switch 2, I've added it as an option when selecting the system you played on.
Given that emulation isn't banned (and shouldn't be IMO), and Switch 2 allows for save states, I added a Game rule that bans the use of save states.
