Final Fantasy VIII Forum  /  Discussion: Windows 7 and Remaster Categories
  AhramanyuAhramanyu
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Greetings,

With the release of the "Remaster" version of FFVIII we once more have voices within the community that would like to discuss the known FPS issue where both the 2013 Release and the 2019 Remaster for PC run slightly faster on Win7, compared to other operating systems. We also need to figure out where to place the "HD" versions in general, and if they should be separated by console or not.

The short topic first: Right now, all "HD" console versions are under one new category, all put together. We do not see a reason YET to separate them, but that is simply due to us not having enough information on any differences yet. If you for any evidence for us that the PS4 version and, for example, the Xbox version have noticeable differences, please point them out to us in this topic. HD PC will be its own category and not be put together with the 2013 release.

Secondly, the Windows issue. While I personally love Windows 7, it already is a very old OS and will no longer be supported by Microsoft within the next year. It is understandable that a lot of runners would prefer to use a modern OS and to not be forced to run Win7 (for security reasons alone).

No decision on that has been made and we would like to discuss with the community the following options, while also asking for other solutions that we haven't considered yet.

1) Allow all operating systems and do not differentiate.
2) Allow all operating systems, but note the one used per run.
3) Separate PC runs done on Win7 as its own category.
4) Ban Win7 as OS for PC runs entirely.

This is not a call that we can make on our own. We do require your input.
Please share this thread to any FFVIII runner you know and ask them to contribute.

Regards

W0lllleW0lllle, EnkuranEnkuran and 2 others like this. 
  W1ndowsW1ndows

I think banning Windows 7 entirely sets us up best for the future. I don't see how allowing all operating systems (options 1 & 2) is going to be sustainable long term when we are thinking of doing something about it for the 2013 release. Having a separate category would be the compromise solution, but I don't see why we should create a category that is going to die slowly as people stop using Windows 7 rather than creating a long term solution right away.

ConnorCordellConnorCordell and SunpawzSunpawz like this. 
  Gef87Gef87

I agree Ban win7

SunpawzSunpawz likes this. 
  SloaTheDemonSloaTheDemon
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outright banning win7 opens up a very big can of worms, i think separating win7 instead is the better option here.

SunpawzSunpawz likes this. 
  Tranquil_RaineTranquil_Raine

Hello. First time posting on the forums. I'm a newer face to running this game. Some past experience running FF9. My personal take would be, that at bare minimum option 2 should become a thing. What language used has been differentiated for a long time, so it has always seemed odd to me, that what OS was used didn't get mentioned. Given that too, effects time in a significant way.

I feel like option 3 may be a sensible solution at this point. Perhaps with a view to eventually implementing option 4, depending on frequency of Windows 7 runs, community sentiment or simply reviewing it again further down the line

 
  ElbodyElbody

I run on windows 7, but I do understand the reasoninig behind banning it, and I agree.

Most hardware is made incompatible to windows 7 nowdays, already a very small fraction of people still use it, in a couple of years probably will be a dead system, altogether with the posibility of getting top times, so let's just ban it.

SunpawzSunpawz likes this. 
  sophLULsophLUL

Since win7 is going to be discontinued Jan 2020, and also straight up doesn't function with the latest gen processors, it's only going to be more of a problem in the future. However, I do think options 2 & 3 are the most viable for right now, with 4 being something that'd eventually need to be implemented because of hardware.

SunpawzSunpawz likes this. 
  EnkuranEnkuran

After a few hours of contemplation, and originally thinking of being against the banning on Win7 for the Remaster category, I think they better option in the long run would actually be banning it outright.

A few thoughts on it are open with the fact that even though this is the"nicer looking" of the two available on steam (so far it functions better in some aspects for me, but I haven't really hard grinded the comparison), the older version is still available for others using a Win7 OS for them to run in, should they want to do so.

Though I do not consider myself too competitive in terms of speedrunning, I will admit learning about the FPS difference in Win10 and Win7 definitely places a mental hindrance on attempting to improve, especially if you started on Win10 like I did. Biggest point of this would definitely be if we kept them together (or even separate categories) if anyone were to experience their computer needing a replacement, leading to an OS replacement/upgrade, there is a possibility they may never actually be able to improve on their time should they have moved on to Win10 from Win7.

In short, I dislike excluding people due to hardware and/or budget, other options for Win7 exist and I think in the long run, it's the more practical solution.

 
  RotaMotaRotaMota

With all this said, what does this mean for those who set times using WIn7 and the old Steam port - does that mean that anyone who runs the old version is going to have to admit the fact that they will never be able to challenge the top-20 placeholders for the game? As Enkuran said, it places a fair-sized mental barrier for runners to get over, regardless of their technical ability.

The only way around that would be to remove all Win7-based runs from the chart and then only submit Win10-based runs from there-on in.

However this would likely mean the removal of several current records, which could cause some angst.

 
  W1ndowsW1ndows

This is only for the new HD version, no rules are being changed for the 2013 release of the game at this time.

 
  SushSush

What with Windows 7 coming to the end of life I would be happy for Windows 7 to be a different category or banned outright for the HD version.

 
  allancgallancg
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Personally, I would prefer a fps fix mod that could be used in all OS, I believe that would be a better solution for now and for the future both related to this problem and for others that may appear, but since I dont know how to make one I cant do much about that.

Edit: if the problem goes beyond the difference in fps, which is the difference afaik, then I would like to know what is causing that in order to suggest something

 
  W1ndowsW1ndows

Could you please answer with one of the options in the opening post. If FPSFix was a viable option we would have presented it as such. We've tried making FPSFix work in FF8 like they have in FF7 and it just doesn't work equally well because the screen transitions are still much slower in Windows 10 than in Windows 7 and therefore doesn't fix the problem, it just makes it slightly less bad.

 
  fatmnfatmn

Hey dudes. Personally, I'd prefer banning Windows 7 (Option 4) because of what a lot of you have stated, but I don't like the idea of excluding anyone who can't afford an upgrade. So my order of preference is Option 4, then Option 3.

Thanks for taking community input on the matter, I really appreciate the effort 🙂

 
  Soma_srSoma_sr

I never push my run in FF8 because you save lot of time with win7 (i had it on bad pc when i ran it). But then my new pc couldn't get win7. So i drop the idea of speedrunning FF8, that i told a lot to Kaivel.

So i'd be for option 3 or 4.

 
  Shug_ssbShug_ssb

Jot me down for 3 or 4.

 
  W0lllleW0lllle

Banning Win7 is the best solution to this. Thx 🙂

 
  LunaLuna

just put it as 2 or 3, over 20-30% of steam users still use windows 7 and will most likely stay around there for years.
Banning entire OS is gonna be a hard Y I K E S from me dawg; might as well start banning hardware for other games :^)

 
  sophLULsophLUL

What you're forgetting though is there's already the 2013 version available for windows 7 users, so it's not like people who only have a win7 OS are blocked out of running anything.

Just because it's 20-30% right now doesn't mean it will be that same % even a couple of years down the line after hardware upgrades. If hardware didn't factor in, I'm sure this discussion wouldn't even be taking place.