That RNG is hard to get but exists.

Most people come here from obsrv, and patch their games to english, this is allowed in speedrunning?

Emulator is a program that emulates the console, not because you add a HDD the real hardware will turn into an emulator. Also keep in mind that there is a lot of different ps2 models that perform different also if they have years of usage or just dirty, it can change the performance. Some PS2 support HDD, and some games support HDD, like outbreak.

Unofficial means like HD Loader and OPL Loader are a thing to be discussed, because as far as I know they are not official or supported by Sony.

I think this was not a very good end. There is a huge lack of impartiality here, I expected exchange of opinions and arguments, but sadly there only was people defending ideas, because are their friends, or simply benefit one side. I don't see the point in Hurriboy and the other guys I don't remeber, to leave the leaderboard; this make me believe some people was "moderating" to only have the """power""" to do whatever they wanted. Anyways, It is good to see 3 different points of view now in the moderation team. Also I want to add that "discus with the other mods if unicoy will be added to the mod team" was a obvious dirty move, a team of friends and runners voting, which of course they have the same opinions because you can see that in the likes on each post in this thread, amd it was a obvious no, against 1 vote.

Hope now this leaderboard follows a good path now.

Greeting, everyone.

I have experience as a moderator in some leaderboards and most of the time I try to talk to other runners to change the rules (I say mostly because I mod some "dead" leaderboards). Last time I reply this forum, I remember you guys said that 1, 2 or 3 runners is not enough to change the rules, so, I demand to have all runners (I mean RUNNERS, not random people that like the game) to be shown their statements about this rule change; anyways, this was needed so badly that it was suddendly posted in the forum, imposing the changes without the possibility to make a conversation with the active runners? (For example, I had to change the rules at Postal Redux because the runs were badly timed and we could have a more precise way to time the runs; and of course I contacted the active full mods to make their opinions, and the runner who made a thread at the forum asking for this actually took my wr from me, but he didn't know because by the rules I was still first).

I have already dealt with stubborn mods and runners, try to be more polite and make your points without being a bit "salty", and I mean like act like a victim on prupose, attack personally, use sarcasm, etc. We are different teams, I don't see other runners as rivals or enemies, it looks like you see us like that. The problem here is that a team is modding this leaderboard, and add people who never made a run before, because I suppose, they are friends. Plus they don't know anything about the game.

I will make the points you already did, so you can have my opinon.

1. I don't see the point in on swapping the music files inside the game, you don't know what that could do, maybe help you, maybe not, maybe making the verifying harder, mayne not. The point is, why are you allowing add music mods but at the same time forbidding them. Liv said like the rule should say having background music is allowed, if the music is really low, then I agree, but if not, well you already know the answer to that.

2. Being a mod it's a difficult task, and it's tiring, you don't get anything in return, but getting hate is not a good start. If you think it's "funny" or "easier" to have the RTA compulsory so you don't have to retime the runs, you shouldn't even be a Verifier. RTA is just for helping the runner, nothing more, don't expect to have a easier job by doing that. I had to retime whole Postal Redux 2 times because the server rolled back a few days ago, but I still did it. I retimed Mortal Kombat Armageddon because I offered myself, and I didn't get anything in return, but I'm still here because it what I am meant to do, and because I like it, if I didn't, I had to abandon the site and left my "charges".

I mostly answered the point 3 at the start. If you want to make a new discord so active runners join, just do it, it will be easier to you to communicate changes.

4. Just verify the runs, you told us you will do it, what are you waiting for? You are verifying your own runs and newer runs, but you still have much to verify before that, I can't express what I feel knowing you are moderating a leaderboard without the intend to moderate the leaderboard properly.

5. I'm glad the other moderator left or were kicked, because they didn't do anything, but it seems like you are actually the same as them, and I don't like that at all, -pointing someone for something and doing the same as that person-.

I spent days, weeks doing this runs with our friends, failure after failure, having all runs finished and submited was a good feeling, then you made that suddenly thread saying the rule changes, but we ask you if you were going to verify our runs, and you said yes, knowing you guys said that you were going to verify them was a huge feeling of happiness, but now you don't want to verify them? What reason you have for that?

I will be waiting a prompt response.

Best wishes. Epica

To have more fairness among players, rules had been change to use In-game timer to have a precise time, so now load times won't affect runners.

Thanks to NewsmanWaterpaper and the other admins for giving their opinions.

PS: This is the second time I did this thread because speedrun.com "rolled back" 3 days, so all was deleted.

If you want to contact me, don't hesitate, I will answer you.

Hi there again.

Hurriboy, tell me one run that you need to be grabbed or hit to save time, if you tell me just one I will give you the reason. NM is just a ez record to get, that is why we run that leaderboard.

I don't see the point in BANNING something that is legitimately obtained inside the game, why you care so much about leaving that rule? Is pointless.

This leaderboard doesn't have lot of runners, the community of sr of this leaderboard is rather small, you are waiting to get at least 50 people (that I suppose, must know about the game) must give a "vote"?

I am not that type of "if most people want..." cus that for me it's just an excuse for not doing something, people mayority don't change reality, I prefer that someone gives me proof or arguments againts my arguments and proof. If your proof is "cus 2 or 4 people won't change..." we won't be getting anywhere.

Hi there.

I want to make a few points now. I know Hurriboy you want to improve the leaderboard, and I like that you took the lead to kick inactive moderators and fix problems, but here are my points:

1. Banning stick figures is not needed, cus no one will pick them, maybe Ms. White at one stage but she has so little health that one hit leaves her in danger, making the run much more harder (and enjoyable). Does "Let's ban Mr. Red cus he has too much damage" sounds good? No one will pick him, nethier Mr. Black nor Mr. Green, etc.

2. Nightmare is the same as the difficulty you choose, I will explain myself. Very Hard has the same RNG as NM Very Hard. Just check it by yourself.

I will write my other points later cus I have to leave now.

Greeting, Epica.

Hello Hurriboy.

I have to say this is a disrespect to our team. You know we were doing runs for months, and getting this new rules out of nowhere without putting a dead-line to upload runs or telling to the community the futures changes.

The idea is not bad at all, but most of the mods can't verify one video in about 5 days, how are you planning to verify 4 videos now?

I hope you verify our runs, it's not something we did yesterday, we were doing this for month and when we got them all upload them all-together.

I repeat, you didn't even warn about this, I feel very frustrated now due this situation.

Greeting, Epica.

Hey hello. Thanks UNICOY to bring this case here. UNICOY wrote all exactly as it is, so I won't repeat it all but I will do a brief explanation.

This all started when I created a Thread at the Forum of MKA Leaderboards, just pointing something out, which it's actually not fair, and it's not competitive at all among speedrunners, so when I waited for the response I started speedrunning Motor Kombat. I don't really remember the date, but I was like 2 days before I uploaded my first runs. I got a response that you can actually follow at the Forum, by this time TKK added Kromer as a Verifier.

On January 7th of this year I uploaded my runs, It took 3 days to get verfied by Kromer, not a big issue.

After that you can see that the Thread keep getting respones not very promising.

On January 17th of this year Kromer took his world records back ,totally cool with that. Then UNICOY told to me he tried to insult me in his lenguage, so I checked and it was true.

On January 19th of this year I uploaded my wr that I took back, and when I uploaded them all, I started a new Thread claiming that a run of Kromer was bad verified, and graciously when I was messing around in the forums I saw Kromer quitting Verifier only in MKA Leaderboards (of course to not verify my WRs) and "deleted" his that was verified, but he actually didn't delete it, he tried to change the time before he left but he messed up and it looked like he tried to delete it.

A month go past. During that month TKK was getting connected (cus I check a lot to be sure what is happening) but he didn't even reply to the threads nor verfy my runs.

(I forgot to say I tried to contact TKK since the first day.)

I contact a moderator that tried to help me, I also explain the whole situation, and he contacted with TKK. Mod let me know and after some days he responded the thread about Kromer's run, not the one it's like, more important. And verfied the Arcade run of Kromer (that he uploaded half month after mine) and verified one of my six runs pending, he didn't even verified the one from Arcade which I have the WR.

Till this day I'm waiting to them to get verified and get a final response on that thread (which now I have solid proof that it is not good to use it). I want this situation to be solve, I feel like they are trying to troll me or something, so I'm asking me to be a full-mode to change this whole non-sense.

Now, thanks for your time.

Greeting, Epica.

I have done some research and datamined Armageddon. And now I have better evidence why this In-Game Timer should not be used for speedrunning.

I tested a lot of things, like yellow traps and death traps, why I claimed they stop the time, well I was wrong, I claimed that because comparing my time with other runs made me think that those things actually stopped the time. So how I was getting less time than those runs knowing now this things don't stop the timer? Well I found that the timer starts when the game is loading the fights, so if someone loads faster than others, they will have better time. Also I confirmed Fatalities stop the timer making save LOT of seconds.

Here I will make like a guide or map showing when the timer starts and stops, I will include Blaze fight just in case. Let's make a case you have an arcade ladder of 2 figther before facing Blaze, so it will be easier to show how the timer behaves.

1. Selecting character and battle plan (ladder). Timer had not started yet.
2. As the game starts loading the fight, the timer starts.
3. Loading is finished, timer is stops.
4. Scenario demostration cinematic (before the camera face the players) timer is still stopped.
5. As soon as the sound and the life bar shows, timer starts. 6-a. Timer will keep going after you defeated your opponent, it will stop when the screen fades and goes back to the ladder. b. After you land the last hit (timer keeps going) and perform a fatality the timer will stop, saving several seconds compared to A. No matter how long you make the fatality, the timer will not resume.
6. Again, the timer is stopped in the battle plan and the points 2 to 6 will be repeated.
7. When you face Blaze at the battle plan, timer will be stopped, and as well the same happen as the points 2-6 but with the difference at the cutscene when Blaze it's defeated the timer keeps going, not very relevant cus you won't see the timer again.

Now, if you have any question just ask them, I will wait an answer and a final decision. I repeat myself, w/o loads is the best method this leaderboard can have, but I don't make the decisions here. Greeting.

EDIT: Sometimes after finishing the loading the timer will keep going, making this even more random.

I was waiting for some players interested on running Individual Levels, but here you are. I will add them today so now everyone can submit their runs.

If you have any questions regarding the game or anything else don't hesitate and ask me.

It's 3m 27s 290ms, not 2m 27s 290ms, just wanted to point that out

It looks like you got offended with what I said, anywayts it's your problem.

You don't want to understand what I'm saying, or you are just stupid, I will wait for KombatKing response.

I'm here again. Let me explain everything with details now, cus I see you are not able to understand.

Fatalities, Stage Fatalities and Yellow Marks stop the in-game timer, so this mean that the IN-GAME TIMER is the PROBLEM. Why? Because we are doing SPEEDRUNS. What are Speedruns? Its like finish the game AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.

So what this means? Start using RTA and runs should be scored W/O LOADS. Why W/O Loads you may ask? Because there are a lot of PS2 models and other versions, and for example PS2 games can be loaded with a HDD to make load faster. You don't want to make w/o loads cus you are lazy? Why you moderating?

Why is this needed? To make this load more fair to everyone, simple as that.

I know but what I am saying is that needs to change, making longer a speedrun for having less time at the in-game timer is completely nonsense.

In my opinion mods should do the timing manually, It's hard but it will be fair.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes I notcied that after I posted this thread, I feel a bit stupid now, and thanks for letting me know about blaze.

I know It is not very interesting to punch the ground with goro for 8 minutes, but we are doing speedruns and in my opinion delaying the in-game timer doing something that takes longer than not doing a fatality shouldn't be allowed,

Hello, I was trying to speedrun Arcade, but as the title says the Leaderboard itself and rules are confusing.

"This category uses an in-game timer." You mean the in-game timer from the Arcade? So why Real time seems like is the one that defines the positions? And with the Blaze rounds, It's only the time you fight againts him, or the whole fight even when he is ko in the ground?

Now, about the glitch / bug, I don't know how to call it, really "breaks" the in-game timer, let me point out a few things first.

*When you throw the IA to an Instakill, while this "cutscene" timers seems to stop, it resumes when the second round starts or go to the next fight.

*When you throw the IA to a Yellow Mark, while this "cutscene" timers seems to stop as well, it resumes when the fight keeps going.

This maybe is a problem, but not as what I am going to tell you.

When you beat the IA two rounds and goes to "finish him/her" screen, you have two things to do, hit the IA so you can go faster to the other fight (what most speedruns do, pretty logical) or apply a fatality, which is not very practical for a speedrun, but here is the deal.

*When you hit the IA while at Finish screen, it will fall and the timer will keep going till screen fades. This means the victory cutscene will affect the in-game timer.

*But if you decide to apply a fatality, as soon as you do (as far as I experiment with is) timer will stop till the next fight starts. So this means after killing your opponent, timer will be still stoped.

So, what is the big deal with this, you may ask? Well, after finising the first fight you can get:

*Without Fatality: 0:48 *With Fatality: 0:42

This is what I discovered while i was expermienting with this, you should try it by yourselvesif you don't believe me.

Now, is this fair? This should be allowed? This leaderboard needs a new way to record the time?

I hope you can answer to this thread soon, and if you have some doubts, don't hesitate to ask.

Why not.