Ohhh wait ya its the 200 AD one that's unskippable. It goes
- Debrief Screen (dialogue, ItemUnlocks, CharacterExp, Weapon unlocks, bodyguard, save)
- "In the year 200AD" cutscene (unskippable, but soft re-setabble)
- Mosou Mode Results (this is where characters unlocked are shown
- Character-specific cutscene (for lingtong i believe it's the Gan Ning Go game?)
- Credits Movie plays
If you don't save you would theoretically need to wait until credit movie plays, but if you save you can soft reset and go to options to play the credits movie faster. But that'd be dumb. So we'll just time it at saving. (so it's clear for future peoples).
Unlock Chaos Mode requirements are beat Lu Bu's Mosou Mode on any difficulty.
To get Lu Bu, you must beat the mosou mode of one officer of each Shu, Wu and Wei.
I would be fine with removing Chaos from both the NG categories. I have been playing with Unlock All Characters% for Chaos with a very convoluted ruleset. But I got stuck on Sun Ce, and I don't think anyone's interested enough in Chaos NG to have to make up a complex ruleset to handle it - as cool as it is to run. Maybe if we get a back and forth in the fourm.
I would also consider cutting Hard from NG+. I see 3? uncontested runs in all of Hard for NG+. Honestly the difference between Hard and Easy on NG+ is really small. Just have hardest difficulty and easiest difficulty for every category imo, but this probably shouldn't be decided in a pure any% thread.
requirements for new game chaos
beat shu, wu, wei
beat lu bu
beat diao chan .
so its like i said its 5 characters before unlock chaos.
So does anyone know the experience required to get to get rank ups?
There are a couple of instances where we could defeat subunits or get extra officer kills given that they can bunch up. Trying to determine if there might be a threshold that we're near. Only exp to get to ranks 15-11 will probably matter. I'm having trouble finding a guide
wonder if its worth it. isnt its more worth it to grab a good weapon . and defense item. guan yu one shoted me yesterday haha i did a no item run .
nice!
defense items are not worth it since they take time to equip and don't help you go faster, and they also make it more difficult to go into the red, which is a good thing if you can do it super quickly. If I were to pick up two weapons that are identical except one also has Life or Def, I'd choose the weapon without the stat.
Although that's minor optimization, there's no shame in equipping tortoise if you need it.
the zhou yu campaign has insanley lot of items and weapons. its boxes everywhere
Ok so I was looking at Zhou Yu/Ling Tong 1p2c routes, inspired by shred's recent run Zhou Yu 1p2c run. I think there's a lot of potential for this route. I'm losing interest in Ma Chao as P2 though. The big issue I'm seeing with him is that because his movement isn't just running, you're not able to move P1 optimally. Unless you're realllyyyyy good with moving with your elbow or something on p1 (yes, i did try this).
This means no grabbing extra items and also there's a depth of field issue in this game where only a certain number of units can load at a time (which is shared between both players). We have to deload enemy units with player 1 or player 2 will find themselves in a situation where the enemy commander isn't loaded. One thing you might be able to try Shred if you do another Zhou Yu/Ma Chao run - you should see if using the Field of View glitch on Zhou Yu has an impact on the depth of field issue. I haven't actually tested it, but I suspect it might? Otherwise we'll need to run with zhou yu to a less populated area.
I looked at Ling Tong vs Ma Chao's starting stats and attackwise they are the same (Ma Chao weapon starts with 1 more power though). The thing I'm wondering is - are his growth rates higher? Like I assume not all officers have the same stat growth rates. But finding information on this is surprisingly difficult. We only care about growth ranks up to 12.
Officers come with different base stat spread, the points/exp required to rank up is the same across the board. When a character ranks up there is sligh increase in stats with extra item slots unlock at certain ranks.
Points/exp is gained in multiple ways, kill count/enemy officers killed etc... basically the menu after each stage, there is also multipliers for the points. Leaving asside the temporary x2 u can find in stages, stats can be permanently upgraded with both rank ups and items (either equipped like the amulets or from "+ items" (life/musou on crates with fixed location - attack/defense dropped by officers also fixed/corresponding base captains)). There is a max u can upgrade each stat.
I think thats how it goes
I've been super busy of late so haven't done a run since my last time, but I wonder if the optimal route might require us to figure out what run has the best combination of starting location, factoring in both 1p and 2p. Just as a silly example, let's say Xu Zhu has 3 stages where he spawns in the best spot, 1 stage where Ma Chao spawns in the best spot, and 1 stage where Zhang Fei spawns in the best spot. Back when i was running ILs, I noticed that each character has a default spawn on every stage, even ones they are not in, and I believe that location is consistent? It's the reasons some of my runs used Lu Bu, some Ma Chao, some Zuo Ci. I don't have the time right now to min/max this but I think it could be massively worth it if you find the optimal combination.
second sun shang xiang stage can be executed in 50 seconds. but in a rta run you always lose time to menus , loading etc.
same with xiahou dun stage 3
ling tong and zhou yu campains seems to be the fastest. xiaohou dun has fast stages but he has 6 stages and thats a problem more loads and more menus.
but yeah youre right all officers have consistent spots where they drop.
the xu zhu rout is a problem cause zuo ci come on last stage and 5 shots you . didnt know that was a thing on hei fei castle
It was my understanding that if they weren't there, they have a generic starting location (with a few, limited exceptions [usually because they are involved in another version of that stage or b/c they switch sides]) and if they are there, they start roughly (but not exactly) where their NPC counterpart would. Are there example stages you can point to where you found two characters that aren't there spawn in different spots? That could help us figure out why that might be the case and give us a hint on figuring out who else that might apply to. For instance, the West of Wu Territory is a better starting location than the East which is where Ma Chao spawns due to the two weapon pickups. I assumed every generic would start on the East, but if that's not the case, it opens up Ling Tong's mosou mode for sure.
I agree, Ling Tong's Mosou Mode is the most promising for Easy. He also has the best starting locations on Chi Bi and Wu Territory. Although in theory, starting near a horse on Chi Bi could be faster, if we found one. I think there is one on the East that isn't on the West (iirc, Cao Pi is on horse and there might be others). And an optimal run would have you already have a weapon from Wu Territory, which frees up picking up just item crates with ling tong himself. The issue is Wu Territory East has no good Weapon crate candidates. Well, you can come at the base from the north, but that seemed pretty slow. And having to do that w/ Ma Chao while also controlling Ling Tong was.... not fun.
I think my concern was less that the ranks level up thresholds might be different, vesus figuring out what the thresholds were, so we can maybe see if there's any point where we're close enough on a level that doing some quick extra thing, like defeating two enemies at once, might tip us over a rank early.
Also are the stat increases the same for every officer on a rank up? I imagine it might not be. Like maybe Ma Chao gets a +2 Attack, +1 Def on hitting Rank 15, while Ling Tong gets +1 Attack, +2 Def or something. I've been scouring the internet looking for any information, but no luck so far.
Also, and I hate to even bring this up, have we ruled out the concept of ranking up increasing stats by a random amount - Fire Emblem style?
I bring this up because as the run gets to the point where we're optimizing fights, we're going to have a different sequence of moves that are faster based on our stats. For instance, in the WR Lingtong fight - with +4 attack and a heavy 3rd weapon - we can kill Liu Bei by knocking him off his horse, popping RAGE, doing a full Square sequence, a stop short square sequence and true mosou. But if your stats are lower, you could miss it and then you'll lose time due to knockdown and sit around waiting for him to get back up. So below a certain stat threshold, it's better to juggle him first. So in order to make those decisions optimally, we need to rule out that the amount of stats increased on rank up aren't random.
doshent feel worth it now to rank up. you only need good weapons and items. would be cool with a low % category with no weapons or items but then we get too many categgories again.
new game free mode have 12 stages though that is for sure longer than the any %
ling tong stiil seems to be the best in new game any % . ma chao and zhen ji are op characters but hard to excecute a 13 min run now . i have done 300 + attempts
sun shang xiang route seems to be really good. you can probably get insane igt runs cause of escape of chi bi. think a new game any % 7 mins igt or maybe 6 is possible,
