Forums  /  Donkey Kong series  /  Donkey Kong (NES)  /  A couple of questions I have
  CaptainSpeedrunsCaptainSpeedruns

I've recently started running this game again, and I'm going for a top 5 time. The problem is, there are a couple of things I don't understand.
Thing1. Is there a somewhat consistent way of getting good RNG with the barrel that Donkey Kong throws at the end of the 1st stage? The one that slows you down if you jump over it before you climb the ladder. I keep having to jump over it and it happens dozens of times in a row. Was just wondering if that's bad luck or I'm starting at the wrong frame or there's some particular inputs I have to press.
Thing2, How do you get a bonus of 4400 on stage 2? I keep getting early cycles with 4300, and it seems insanely difficult to do better. Looks like you have to walk really far at the end but just enough so the springs don't hit you. Was wondering what the trick is there since I never get it no matter how hard I try, so if anyone knows what the trick is there, I would love to know, and I would really appreciate it. Thanks again 🙂.

 
  Chambers_NChambers_N

I am in the process of analyzing the RNG for the barrel board and will report my findings hopefully by the end of the week. As for the 4400 on stage 2 I will be analyzing the spring stage soon in a tas editor to find out exactly what would be required to achieve this. I too, will post my findings once I get to it.

 
  CaptainSpeedrunsCaptainSpeedruns

Thank you so much! I'm hyped to see this

 
  Chambers_NChambers_N

As for the 4400, this is a perfect spring stage. One frame later and you will only have a 4300. The 4400 requires the short spring, the spring that spawns furthest to the left, which allows you to stop and wait furthest to the left. There are 25 frames of waiting then you go on the earliest frame where you will not get hit. If you do this one frame faster you will die, if you do it one frame slower you get a 4300. The Barrel Analysis will come at the end of the week.

 
  CaptainSpeedrunsCaptainSpeedruns

Would that make a short spring spawn RNG based?

 
  Chambers_NChambers_N
(edited: )

The short spring is RNG based. The game reads certain inputs every frame and alters results, the spring progression may be set at some point as the level is loading, I have not tested this fully, but I have noticed that a random A input during the transition to the Spring stage does modify the fireball and what springs come out. I did a theory TAS of the game and I had to do some random inputs during that transition in order to get the short spring.

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  Chambers_NChambers_N

But any reliable manipulation will require buffered inputs, once I am done with my research I will share my findings, as of now you can take comfort in knowing that so far I have confirmed that buffered RNG manipulation does exist so we don't have to wait on that barrel again, I have confirmed this with US rom with both Bizhawk and FCEUX. I have a US cart on the way and will be testing out console results with this rom. I will not be able to test out the JP cart because I don't have one, nor have I purchased one.

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  Chambers_NChambers_N
(edited: )

The problem is that it will not be easy to manip the fireball. We can buffer manips till it is time to get off the "glitched ladder" but there is a 3 frame window to get off onto the girder smoothly. If you get off say on frame 2 then that is one more frame of down input, but I think that down does not cause manips but pressing left certainly does, as does pressing right, so in this case there will be a variance of when you stop pressing left to the final ladder, and so if you hit that on earliest frame and continue to press up until after the spring stage loads, and if spring progression is fixed as some point during that transition they it would be possible to manip the springs, but it would require two frame perfect inputs, but yet if this does not matter and this small variance gives the same outcome then we need not to worry about it at all. Obviously manips will differ from emulator to emulator and rom to rom. Bizhawk starts up a tad differently from FCEUX so different RNG occurs on the US rom. But the JP rom also handles things a tad differently so for example I could not run the US TAS I did with the JP rom it broke down at some point in the RNG. Perhaps the game starts up one frame later or earlier, which is not out of the question as the transition between barrel and spring boards is one frame quicker in JP over US from what I have observed. There is frame variance on the transition from spring to rivet such that it could last 397 frames or 407 frames and anything inbetween from a single test save state making it difficult to determine if the JP version at that point is also one frame faster, but I can confirm that the black frames in the transition between both US and JP are 47 frames in the US rom and 46 frames in the JP rom.