Forums  /  Dino Crisis series  /  Dino Crisis 2  /  LucianoRX's PS1 WR - Why is it not on the leaderboard? (Locked)
  CarcinogenSDACarcinogenSDA

This run is only in parts because it was uploaded at a time when YouTube only accepted 10 minute videos.

Moreover, all the parts sync up if you add them all together. No saves were used.

Technically, this run should be the world record on console. Consequently, why is there an arbitrary ruling that the run itself cannot be submitted when the videos themselves do not omit any part of the run?

I can tell you it is real because LucianoRX ran various Capcom titles on an actual PS2 console for SDA (which had rigorous video submission standards) and the audio hum in the video is exactly like it sounds when you play on a real console. The videos are not spliced together.

Please add this run to the leaderboard.

MASHMASH, MisterDodiMisterDodi and LivLiv like this. 
  MisterDodiMisterDodi

Thank you for pointing that out, i havent really put an eye on old Dino2 runs since Deadhunter did it mostly, however i added the run and time accordingly and he is now 1st place

 
  666Deadhunter666Deadhunter

It was a decision of all active runners, long time ago to not include that run in the leaderboard.
I don't care about SDA, this video is not a real proof of single segment. I asked many times Luciano on You Tube to explain some weird things and he deleted my messages. So no, it can't be considered as a single segment run. Maybe we can create a multi segment category ?
For a submission we ask for a single segmented run and a RTA timer !

MisterDodiMisterDodi likes this. 
  MisterDodiMisterDodi

Speaking of the rules with single segment / rta timer, considering the age of that run single segment might be out of question, he has the runb splittet in 3 parts on the website i linked to , with that run, which is an improvment to the 9part thingy (which youtube related back in the days).
However RTA is pretty relevant these days isnt it? Due to difference with pal / ntsc on console?
If Luciano didnt respond to Deadhunter as said and a "single segemented" recording cant be found AND it already has been discussed in the past between the active Dino2 people then the run should be removed for the time being unless a segmented category will be added.
However - this is just my personal opinion - considering the small numbers of people actually playing / running it these days it might not worth it adding additional categories to the board just for that run.

 
  666Deadhunter666Deadhunter

If someone else would submit a video now with many YT segments and no timer it would be rejected, that's not fair.
I asked him many things about his run because me and other people found it strange, he did not answered me.
I asked him if he wanted to be in the leadearboard, he did not answered me. He just deleted all my messages from YT commentaries...

 
  MisterDodiMisterDodi

If he doesnt even respond to you or work with us / you then i dont see a reason why that run, with current ruleset should be posted.And if he even deleted your comments then its a bit dodgy.
I removed / rejected the run again.
If You and the active runners decide to put up a segmented category then we can consider to post and validate the run , but until then it should be left out of the board.

Edit: If we talking about that, its basically the same with Zenos run that hasnt been posted on the board. Personally i know he is legit, but then again the same rules apply for now.

 
  ZooballZooball

As a third party observer who casually runs these (none of this really affects me as times so low!) does this not also invalidate his WR run in DC1 as this is also segmented. Can't speak for whether its legit or not as don't know enough about it but from what Seph was saying about DC2 run, gives cause for concern about whether DC1 run is legit.

MisterDodiMisterDodi likes this. 
  666Deadhunter666Deadhunter

Idk, I'm not a DC1 runner or moderator. I did'nt watch it.
If there is a probleme with a DC1 run it's not my job ^^

 
  MisterDodiMisterDodi

In fact you are correct. Thank you for that
I will re-evaluate the run and additionally check if i can find a single video file.
If not, i will have to move the run to segmented category instead as i dont think run is completly invalid to be removed completly from the board.

 
  LivLiv

Having a video in multiple parts does not make a run segmented. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of what segmented means.

Segmented: Playing individual sections of a run over and over, utilizing saves, to get the most optimal run possible. You don't beat the game in one sitting, you play it over weeks, sometimes even months (or years depending on the game) to get the PERFECT run.

Single-segment: A run beaten in one sitting. Does not utilize saves. Does not save and quit. If you die, restart the entire run.

A run being in multiple video parts has absolutely nothing to do with a run being segmented or not. Essentially what is happening is that, right now, you don't have the PS WR on the leaderboards.

ConkyJoe89ConkyJoe89 likes this. 
  666Deadhunter666Deadhunter

I know the difference BUT there is no proof that's a single...
And there is too many things who are very weird (with my experience of the game). That's a personnal view (but some people who knows the game are agree).
Now, to be objective and fair, I would not accept a run wich would not be accepted if it was submitted by another speedrunner, not only on this leaderboard or another (nevermind it claims for 1st or 10th place, I don't care of this)

 
  PunchyPunchy

dino crisis 1 literally displays at the end of the game the amount of saves and continues used

https://i.imgur.com/rZHu2w2.png

Fat zero. It's not segmented.

stands to reason the dino2 one probably isn't either judging from the fact all the video files sync up fine and they cut in totally random places due to the timing restriction rather than anywhere it'd make sense to splice gameplay

MASHMASH and CarcinogenSDACarcinogenSDA like this. 
  CarcinogenSDACarcinogenSDA

No, what is happening here is a fundamental misunderstanding of what "segmented" means. Segmented means that he abused saves to restart each segment until he got it perfect. He did NOT. He was forced to upload his run in chunks because YouTube limited uploads to 10 minutes at a time back in 2008. If you bothered to check his video description, you will see he also split the run into larger chunks for Archive.org, which further corroborates my logic.

https://archive.org/details/DinoCrisis2_5330

"SPLIT INTO PARTS" DOES NOT MEAN "SEGMENTED." "Segmented" is a term that started AT SPEED DEMOS ARCHIVE and has a very specific meaning in speedrunning nomenclature. It all-but doesn't happen anymore because very few people run segmented runs as competition (TAS does what Segmented does, only better) but SDA had split videos into parts multiple times for one reason or another due to technical limitations. But those were denoted as "in x number of parts".

If you watch them back to back in the playlist, all of the audio syncs up, especially the parts where the audio clips out and clips in when the next segment loads from the YouTube playlist. Tell me, on a system with variable loads due to mechanical disc reading such as a PS2, is the music going to sync up perfectly if you record two identical runs side to side? The answer is "no". There is audio buzzing in the video which would not be present if it was on emulator. The run was not spliced together.

That would mean that the only reason to reject the run as WR is to demonstrate the things he did were impossible, and nothing he did was impossible. He would have practiced a lot with savestates before recording on a real console, perhaps. He even failed the keypad puzzle, if his goal was to cheat the RNG, why would he let that pass? His execution was tight as well, not totally flawless, but very within human limitations, and he knew how to anticipate all of the dino spawns on top of having clear linework.

Same with his DC1 any% run which is now apparently also "segmented". Segmented doesn't mean "in parts for the sake of technical limitations", it is a way of playing the game, and that is not how Luciano played the game. So either prove "what is weird" about the run, or accept it.

MASHMASH likes this. 
  MisterDodiMisterDodi

His DC1 run is back on Any% for the time being. But no more split-video files will be accepted for future runs.

As for DC2 - considering he used a console , i have to agree that i dont think he edited the run or did a segmented the run, additionally the 9splits somewhat matches up as well with the 3-Part Video from archives.org , However it is still very dodgy that he did not replied to deadhunter for a simple clarification and deleting his comments / texts - with that all trouble could have been completly avoided.

If the majority of the active DC2 runners decided not to include the run due to these circumstances - then it should stay that way. And after all - it would be nice to have a word by him about that matter but does he care about it or even know about the matter thats going on here? Unless we hear from him i think it should stay the way it is right now. I dont want to discredit him and i think the run after all is pretty amazing - but having this discussion without the main person involved would just end up arguing about the basics, which actually should be pretty clear by now.

 
  OrchlonOrchlon

Unless this criteria was added after this thraed, the rules say state, "Single-Segment" AND "No VOD, cut videos or desynced audio". The run is most likely single segment, but the rules specifically say even if the run is in single segment cut videos are not allowed, now whether the rule is fair is another issue entirely.

Also, Caring about console WRs CoolStoryBob

SymmSymm likes this. 
  StarwinStarwin

I've watched his DC1 record a few times, and I never really saw anything out of place. The thing that just baffled me the most was he only took damage on the 3rd T-Rex encounter, and that's because it's the quickest way to do the fight.

He had mistakes, but all in all its a solid run.

 
  PunchyPunchy

the pair of console WRs from this guy are faster than anything anyone else has managed to produce IGT. It's a better run. His Dino1 time is the longest standing WR on the entire website at 14 years.

yes people care about those times, don't be a dumbass

"Unless this criteria was added after this thraed, the rules say state, "Single-Segment" AND "No VOD, cut videos or desynced audio""

firstly I think yes it was added after this thread, secondly there's a problem with that because this run is so old it predates this website, predates this ruling and predates a time period where that was even possible for the guy to do. It was uploaded at a time when YouTube didn't allow you to up more than 15 minute chunks at a time. Chucking run history to the wind over trying to retrofit a modern technology standard onto a run that's 9 years old is wasteful.