In 2.0, there is the unstuck button which allows you to travel great distances very fast. So, I would suggest a new sub-category next to glitchless and glitched: Glitchless - no unstuck. In this category, unstuck button is forbidden. All runs before 2.0 would be moved to this category and runs which are done in 2.0, but don't use the unstuck button, are also moved there. I think, this would be an interesting category to have 2.0, but also to not "cheat" with the unstuck Button feature, if you get what I mean. It's just an Idea.
I think unstuck is fair in survival, it’s just like a deathwarp but you get to keep your items, in hardcore however it should be completely forbidden. By nature of adding “deathwarps” it would put hardcore runs on the same route as survival runs which would ruin their hardcore-ness if not addressed imo
Unstuck is simply a feature of 2.0, and while it is similar to death warps it has nothing to do with dying, therefore it will remain allowed in hardcore runs.
As for the leaderboard split, I definitely see the point in that, but there would have to be enough interest in both categories for it to make sense. Right now, most of the top runs including the WR in survival glitchless are not played on 2.0, and almost the same is true for hardcore glitchless.
We haven't discussed this internally, but I think it's safe to say that we will think about this more seriously if we get more 2.0 runs.
Well whatever happens I believe there need to be leaderboards that accommodate hardcore runs in any patch including 2.0 without unstuck allowed. (where the rules account for platforms unable to downpatch out of 2.0)
Obviously 2.0 is currently the optimal patch for hardcore (excluding glitched, maybe) and that doesn’t sit right with me, because now almost all glitchless hardcore routes under the current leaderboards are completely obsolete and without a home, doomed to be replaced by the already existing survival routes.
Too much remains to be seen around the idea that current runs are "completely obsolete". While the Unstuck feature is powerful, it is far from the be all and end all.
Ultimately games that still receive updates constantly have to consider the impacts of introduced functionality, or the inability to do things that you previously could. This may result in split boards, especially in games with a significant level of activity and interest.
Subnautica is neither of those things, though. We did not split the boards based on version previously when new patches reduced the ability to perform glitched runs to the same extent, and are unlikely to do so for the fact the current patch (which by default has less barrier to entry compared to down-patching) includes the Unstuck mechanic. If new runs displace the current runs on the leaderboard due to that strategy, the option is always there for current record holders to run the game again on the latest version to take advantage of the same mechanic.
Nothing has changed in my opinion of this - a new game feature is along the same lines as a new strategy within the same framework, in that if an older runner wants to re-run the category to take advantage of the Unstuck functionality and get a better time, they are able to. There is no clear need to make a separation in the leaderboards.
We did have some discussions around a more restrictive 'no exploits' ruleset that would include banning Unstuck alongside other glitches & exploit behaviour, but generally people want fewer barriers to speed, not more.
There are other games with way less runners that have a new category for every game version. There are many questions, splitting by version, by the use of the button or by "no exploits". My play wars to bump this topic and see if there is any interest. It seems that currently there is not much interest in this split anyway.
I think that there should totally be a new category for "no unstuck". I feel like the "truest" way to speedrun the game is hardcore glitchless no unstuck, but I haven't found any speedruns of that; it would be so cool though.
there technically is Hardcore Glitchless runs that Dont have unstuck but they are just not on the top of the board, i think ive seen that Clove's run has no unstuck you can view that one, it has been talked about before.
Technically the "truest" speedrun, if you're talking about being faithful to playing the game "normally", would be Hardcore Glitchless All Achievements. There's plenty of older runs there that do not abuse Unstuck. Generally if you check out Rubiks37's runs, they held pretty much every record in the pre-Unstuck generation.
But the actual truest speedrun, in terms of being faithful to the concept speedrunning a game - completing it by the fastest way possible - is any% survival glitched, and making use of any and all game features, exploits, and reproducible glitch effects. And if that could also use Unstuck as well, if not for the mutually exclusive game version issues between the best glitches vs the latest version, it would.
And for glitchless, unstuck abuse is for sure immersion breaking, but so is death abuse, which it effectively replaces. It's also not exactly immersive to collect every material that you need in advance of even knowing in-game that you need it... or going to precisely the right places, and building bases in advance... speedruns involve a great deal of out-of-the-gameplay thinking. Don't get me wrong, I kind of hate that they made Unstuck so unnecessarily abusable, but I also really appreciate it from a speedrunning perspective.
Where can i watch no unstuck glitcheless runs? Does someone have the titles/ links for some good ones.
there is Hardcore Glitchless runs that Dont have unstuck but they are just not on the top of the board, i think ive seen that Clove's run has no unstuck you can view that one, or like AJ said you can view Rubiks37's runs, you could just scroll up to view past things.
My run was without the unstuck button.
It's also pretty messed up that it's a feature that was added AFTER the release of the game.
There are also other things that are questionable for a glitchless run like clipping through the sand near the Sea Emperor Portal. But that can happen by accident and banning this would be a hassle.
I am still unhappy that a new feature gets introduced many YEARS after the game was released that breaks the whole leaderboard. And this leaderboard is way big enough for a split. I have seen leaderboards with 3 runners. I also think it would encourage people to run glitchless.
Im not sure what you mean by Clipping through the Sand near the Sea Emperor Portal but any form of clipping would be banned as a glitch? Is it only you or do you have a specific run that you can point me to see this?
I think they are referring to the point where it may appear that you are clipping into the sand, but it is because the collision is removed as soon as the animation begins to blow away the sand, you do not have to wait until the pedestal is visibly clear of the obstacle. This is not clipping or a glitch in any sense. The main soft-glitch we have allowed is entering the red grass wreck through the wreckage as the collision is not closed before the Aurora explodes, in order to remove inconsistency from fragment luck earlier in the run.
The contention that splitting the boards would encourage people to run glitchless is an odd one, since there is no reason you cannot run glitchless as-is without making use of unstuck, and you would still be able to post a competitive time compared to most of the leaderboard. But generally speedrunners want to make best use of anything they can to make a run more efficient and post a faster time, and it is more encouraging to be able to cut out travel time.
Otherwise if you want a more 'pure' run then Single O2 Tank is a Category Extension that offers a more restricted ruleset to demonstrate more immersive gameplay.
What could be done is not adding a new category, but adding a new "description". Just like Platforms, there could be one "description" for "Unstuck abuse". Then, people who want to watch runs without abuse can just filter that.
@ajchimaera That’s exactly what I meant. It may not technically be clipping, but the sand is still visible, so it feels like it. And allowing entry into the red‑grass wreck makes sense to me, since it enables more consistent runs and clipping literally doesn't exist there. There is no hidden machanic to activate to glitch in there, you can just go there like anywhere else.
@_Sirius_ I’m not entirely sure what this means, but making the abuse of the “unstuck” button at least visible would already be an improvement.
I’m still a bit annoyed that the nature of this speedrun category changed so significantly after 1.0 due to an update, effectively making all previous runs obsolete. It’s normal for categories to evolve through the discovery of new routes or new uses for existing mechanics, but fundamentally changing a category through a newly introduced mechanic after the official release of the game is something that shouldn’t happen. With the new era of SaaS‑style games, I’m sure this will become more common, and Subnautica won’t be the only game facing this discussion. For example, Satisfactory introduced major changes with versions 1.1 and 1.2, and I’m sure other games will follow.
I just checked, and Satisfactory for example split 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2.
So could Subnatuica too. Split 1.x and 2.x, as the unstuck button was introduced with the huge Subnautica 2.0 update.
