is there a glitchless category and if not can we get one ?
There has been alot of debate on the discord about this, the issue is where the line can be drawn for whats parkour and whats a glitch.
I would say walking on invisible walls is a glitch. I would say walking outside the map is a glitch. I would say skipping a whole chapter is a glitch. Honestly, it isn’t very hard to distinguish a glitch from “parkour.” Are you playing according to the game design? Why are you trying so hard to defend glitched runs? That’s the real question…
I mean it’s a speedrun challenge, not a glitch mastery challenge, right? This website is literally called speedrun.com, not glitchrun.com.
it is a little bit more nuanced than that, in fact when discussing the glitchless ruleset all of the things you have said above were banned. For a lot of the bigger skips this was very obviously banned however there were some edge cases that are hard to address, for example there is an area in the lifeboats where you can fall down and die to hit a checkpoint which skips a smaller chunk of the level. Now would falling from the above railing be classed as out of bounds? We aren't really too sure.
The more nuanced part of that is getting out of bounds in some cases does not abuse glitches, its using normal in-game mechanics to do e.g. jumping on a railing. so in that case you aren't really leaving the playable area nor jumping on an invisible wall
There is also the case of defining the out of bounds area which is pretty hard to define. For example the Leg A deathwarp (deathwarps are falling into checkpoints and dying) just before the pontoons levels doesnt really go out of bounds nor do you stand on any invisible walls. Now you could say that falling inside the leg could be considered out of bounds as it technically isnt playable area. These examples are meant to serve as talking points and not definite reasons as to why a glitchless category wouldnt work as I think it would with more discussion about what is and isnt allowed.
Now at the time of discussing these rulesets there wasn't very much interest for the category, only 2 runners were interested, so it did get put on the backburner (apologies that is our fault.)
If you guys are interested in running a glitchless category id be more than happy for you guys to join the discord and discuss it further!
Ok, if walking on invisible walls and out of bounds are banned, why are you scoring my run with people who are clearly exploiting said glitches?
I think a glitchless category would be good for the game but as Chris and Looney said its quite difficult to define especially since the developers were encouraging and teaching players to do speedrun skips when the game released. Its a lot more nuanced than you think.
If there is more demand for the glitchless category in this game then im sure we would be happy to add it! Im not a moderator of the game so I cant do very much with adding it right now but im all open for discussion about it and talking about what is allowed and isnt.
No, it’s not. You make the rules. Ban anything suspicious. My run is 100% legit, if people want to exploit glitches, even a little one, then they can’t be scored in the glitchless category. If you banned it, then people would stop doing it. It’s a very simple concept with an easy solution. Why do you struggle with it? Glitched runs have their own class. If what they do is sus, no glitchless run for you. In the lifeboat scenario, if you purposely fall and die in a specific spot and therefore skipping a section of the game, you are exploiting a glitch, therefore not allowed in the glitchless category. The developers may have pointed it out but was that the way they designed to be played, to die on purpose to gain an advantage? You think they designed a game where dying gives you an advantage? Really?
glitchless doesn't mean dev intended. if you want a dev intended% (which is what it sounds like you want) give the moderators a notorized letter from the developers that explicitly and clearly defines what is intended, with examples for every section of the game.
Attempts of fraud will be dealt with by the maximum extent of the law.
I know what glitchless means. It means without glitches. What glitchless doesn’t mean, is “almost glitchless,” or “mostly glitchless,” or “dev approved glitches.” It means no glitches whatsoever. In a horror survival game where the whole point is to survive to the end and beat the game, rewarding a player for dying on purpose is not right. When you die, you’re supposed to start back at the last checkpoint until you complete the section without dying, therefore continuing the timeline of your character still being alive and surviving in the game. You can’t finish a game with a character that has died, that’s why every game ever makes you reload the last checkpoint before you died and play through the section successfully before advancing to the next checkpoint. If people want to exploit the lifeboat glitch, then score them with all the other glitches. Glitchless means no glitches, period.
Hi @NOCON7ROLL I feel I need to step in here. Glitchless isn’t defined by “ban anything suspicious” - every game community works out those rules together because edge cases are always more complicated than they seem. As someone who is very passionate, but new to speedrunning I think you need to recognize the experience of the other people participating in this conversation, and accept that it is not as simple as it seems.
It’s important to keep discussions constructive. Being rude to other runners and moderators is not acceptable behaviour.
If you want a glitchless category added, the right path is joining the Discord and helping shape the ruleset with others. Categories only work when they’re defined by community consensus, not by one person’s interpretation.
Cheers
Death warping aside, there’s still a lot of nuance in what can be considered good parkour versus what might count as a glitch.
I watched your pending 1:34:30 run to highlight some moments that could be up for debate. I’ll reference timestamps from that video to keep things clear and avoid misunderstandings:
2:01: You take a shortcut over some pipes. You’re not using invisible walls, but you are skipping part of the dev-intended path. Should the missing piece of collision that allows this be considered a glitch, or just clever parkour? 11:35 and 1:09:26: There are gaps where the dev clearly intended you to shimmy, but you can just jump across. Is jumping here good parkour, or a glitch since it avoids the intended movement?
Let's now take the same concept one further:
17:02: At the start of the lifeboats level, if you jump at the shimmy from an angle, you can walk over the beam without triggering the shimmy prompt. Is this a glitch or good parkour? There’s no invisible wall, no out of bounds, just a precise jump. If this isn’t allowed under glitchless, how is it different from the shortcut over the pipes earlier, which also skips a small part of the level through a creative jump?
20:53: You can skip a climb by walking up the red toolbox on the left and jumping. Glitch, or parkour? 16:03: You can jump down the stairs on the railing and jump from there to reach the wall-break trigger faster. 29:30: You can jump down the stairs and slide down the railing to the door for a faster route. 1:05:29 Here’s a tricky one: if you reload the checkpoint, you can play the next section at running speed instead of walking speed. Would this be considered a glitch? It wasn’t dev-intended, but you’re not doing anything complicated to trigger it, just a basic checkpoint reset.
These are just a few examples, and there are many more of these small timesaves throughout the run. If you want a truly glitchless category, each of these cases would need to be reviewed individually to decide whether it’s simply good parkour or a glitch.
As you mentioned, the site is speedrun.com, at the end of the day the goal is to beat the game as quickly as possible within the ruleset. The challenge with glitchless is that defining those rules consistently gets very complicated.
I’m not against a glitchless category, but defining it clearly is the hard part. I think it’d be good to go through examples like this as a group and set solid criteria before deciding.
You think I’m the one exploiting glitches? Jumping over the pipes is equal to purposely dying to gain an advantage in the lifeboat chapter? Jumping over the pipes is equal to walking on invisible walls? Jumping the pipes is equal to glitching outside the map and skipping to the end? There’s no way you really believe that. But fine, if I submit another run without doing everything you just mentioned, then will you give me a glitchless category? However, you still haven’t even verified my pending run, so I have no idea how much time I need to take the lead on the scoreboard. You’re not going to drag me into the mud with you all by convincing me to use exploits to beat the glitchless speedrunning record. If this community thinks they are such great speed runners and I’m just some new guy that doesn’t know anything, then try and beat me without all your little “it’s a grey area” glitches. But I don’t think you guys can even load the game without exploiting some kind of glitch, so I’m not really worried about skill level. I really feel like you don’t even want a truely glitchless class, so you will just find some other reason to prevent my times from being scored legitimately.
Sorry i think some miscommunication has happened here (apologies on our part) but we are not against you in anyway, we are super happy to have more runners join the community!
What QewQew was trying to get at in the above message was not to discredit your run but rather provide further context as to why certain things remain in a grey area.
We arent trying to "drag you into the mud" with convincing you to do skips, in fact we have never even said this or implied this. Speedrunning at the end of the day is arbitrary and if you want to play how you want to play then it is no ones business to tell you otherwise
This is the main crux of the problem, this hobby being mostly arbitrary means that having concrete rulesets that everyone agrees on is nearly impossible (especially for glitchless runs)
Now i do agree that this category should have been implemented way sooner but as of right now the interest for this run at the moment has waned. However i will say again if you wanted to be involved in discussing the ruleset further i would highly suggest joining the discord server, discussion is a lot easier on there than here.
Now for some other things just going over your message; I think you need to ease up a little and to not think we are constantly going against you for every point you make, that just is not the case. Realistically we are just trying to open a discussion for a good ruleset that most people can agree on and in this case having new people join the community is great for that and the opinions are valued.
Coming into the discussion thread and being toxic to other runners is just not going to be tolerated at all, if you wanted to have a discussion in good faith about this category you wouldnt just say "But I don’t think you guys can even load the game without exploiting some kind of glitch, so I’m not really worried about skill level."
People are not going to listen to you if you keep saying these things, if you truly wanted a glitchless category for this game then why are you constantly discrediting other runners.
Ok im going to end this long message but please do not take this as me attacking you, all I want from this thread is something productive to come out of it so I would urge you to join the discord and we can go over everything in this game to decide whether it is fit for a glitchless ruleset or not.
Would just splitting the categories into "out of bounds" and "inbounds" work as a simplier any% and glitchless/no major glitches?
