This is a fun racing game and very much meant for racing. Is anyone down to have track records? Basically time trials. This would be very fun and surely would attract more people to speedrun it.

My issue with it is twofold:

1. It would take quite the undertaking of the admins to put all of these boards up, and constantly approve runs/PBs on each level. Would we then need to do this on all the other games? Would we need it for clockwise/counter clockwise?

2. Would this just be a stupid waste because all the individual level records will just be held by people who sandbag their run to have max upgrades and nitros and just go all out on that one particular track? So the fastest fandango time would just be someone who saved all their nitros up and waited to use them all on this one particular track at that moment for an IL?

Because of point 2, I'm hesitant to consider the amount of work laid out in point 1, but am open to discussion if there's interest besides a single person or two.

Well the point is to time trial. So one would want to race individual tracks with a full setup. Yeah seems also that it would be a lot of work. Just a thought for consideration. I believe this game is almost dead with the last run submitted insane RNG. Bonuses all around and easy to pick them all up. It was truly an insane run.

Just to make sure we're on the same page here, since nearly all of the default rules on this website don't allow for save states, every single attempt would require roughly 10-15 minutes of prep just to get the truck up to maximum spec for optimal time trial times.

Yes. You would have to prep and yes. Save states would be allowed since you are just competing for a specific time on a specific track. Save states are allowed as long as you do a continuous run without splicing or anything like that. Once the timer starts there is no loading. The game has individual timing for each track also.

i vote no.

seems like way too much effort for such a small community. there are so many tracks, many of which we don't even see in the main category.

as a general rule i don't like categories that don't require additional skills beyond the skills used in the main category. It's not enough for the rules to be different. using more nitros and not having to worry about pickups feels like less skill, not more.

If we did feel like we needed more categories i'd be more interested in something like "All Tracks(In Game Time)" or "Max Stats, NO Nitro Usage". But individual tracks for this doesn't excite me.

Those are good categories you mentioned SpaceColonizer in my opinion.

Time trialing is a part of racing. Racing is about going fast not RNG or pick-ups. But i do understand. This is truly a good racing game specially in multiplayer. Theres different line you can take. Spamming nitrous doesn't necessarily mean you go faster. There's avoiding certain "dirt obstacles". I can think of so many good memories, races and photo finishes while playing back in the day. Well i just wanted to mention it to see if anyone was down.. but i do understand it is a very small community, cheers.

I would be interested to see how optimized we could get individual track times. I have always loved this game and I personally have always wondered what the fastest time was for each track. Although yes it would be a lot of work to verify and set up but you could even split it into 2 sub categories(all out and no nitro). Racing games are often competitions to see who is the fastest. Often times you can have racers who specialize in certain tracks. For example on Forza Motorsport, in my network of friends, there are sum that are really good at long tracks like Nurburgring and Le mans but they are terrible at smaller tracks, and vise versa. I think it could bring a breath of fresh air to this game and its speedrunning community.

I can be a mod as well to help put. I am currently NBA Jam mod. The game also has a built in timer for each track.

Aight, sounds good. If you're willing to put in the work. If you end up ghosting us, let it be said right now that the sub categories may not be permanent if it requires too much upkeep lol

fair enough

Cool I'll get right too it. Get ready to go fast!!

So the fastest fandango time would just be someone who saved all their nitros up and waited to use them all on this one particular track at that moment for an IL?

About what I would do but I don't think that's a bad thing. An alternative and shorter way to play a 15 minute game gives variety. Maximizing nitro use is skillful.

Save states would be allowed since you are just competing for a specific time on a specific track.

• The problem is being allowed to start from save state, which is banned in all competitive games. I like to play on real console and cart while that's still possible. I can't repeatedly reload the 2nd or whatever stage to increase attempts per hour.
• Save states also rig the RNG of racer movement and turbo drops. This is cheating. I save stated at the trophy stand after the first race on 2 attempts. The second race's RNG has just 2 possibilities: Whether I buy Top Speed or not. First attempt, staying idle, grey car finishes in 46.0 if I buy it and 48.6 if I don't. Second attempt, it's 45.8 and 48.1, respectively. Each of these 4 times has a distinct nitro/cash drop pattern and I want cash if I'm speedrunning the next level.
• You can RNG manip on real console as well but there's no shortcut.

Besides requiring to start from power on or reset, I request having to finish in first for an individual level. Would look bad to see grey car turbo ahead but still be a record. This won't be much upkeep unless a big Tuber makes a speedrun history video.

Besides requiring to start from power on or reset, I request having to finish in first for an individual level. Would look bad to see grey car turbo ahead but still be a record. This won't be much upkeep unless a big Tuber makes a speedrun history video.

That's interesting, that would be a pretty cool category extension. You mean just the final race of the run? Or all of the races? I think the latter is generally pretty damn difficult and probably a lot of luck tied to it. It may just lead to the digging of glitches with the lapcounter which would be counterintuitive to the category in the first place haha.

I am in absolute complete agreement on the Save State issue. It was my whole problem with the IL idea in the first place (that and the lack of interest), and in the 3 months since they were made moderator, it never materialized into anything. We can revisit one day if the demand is there for IL, but for now, with not enough interest, and no real practical way for players to put in reps in a timely manner without tainting the RNG with a save state, it's currently off the table. Obviously we'd all be operating with perfect nitros/upgrades already for an attempt, but memorization and optimization of enemy car movements based on particular save states you have vs a competitor is just a can of worms I don't think anyone wants to deal with.

JakVeneno is no longer a moderator of this game. We thank them for creating the framework of the categories and development to the leaderboard, but it has seen zero submissions so far without any reason to expect many on the horizon.

Which then leads to... how in the world can we even have IL submissions? Are we expecting runners to submit their entire run of the game up to that IL attempt to show it wasn't savestated? There's no other way to be sure it isn't based off a save state. If this game saw enough runners, wouldn't it just devolve into who's savestate had the perfect RNG setup for enemy cars to be encountered at the perfect places/times, and less so about the driving skill? In that case, the video of the run itself is trivial, all that is doing is showcasing the lucky AI movements, it's not showcasing the run itself that got the player into that position to have that blessed RNG run.

Do we have a more elegant solution for this? There are zero runs submitted as of now, so getting this right from the beginning is way more friendly than trying to change the rules on people after runs populate the board. I'm open to any and all ideas, including cutting ILs out entirely for cleanliness sake.

You mean just the final race of the run?

Yes, the race(s) you're submitting for IL. Finishing second or third in other races wouldn't disqualify. But requiring first in every race is interesting.

Are we expecting runners to submit their entire run of the game up to that IL attempt to show it wasn't savestated?

Yes. Alternative: Separate console and emulator leaderboards in IL. Or have no IL.

wouldn't it just devolve into who's savestate had the perfect RNG setup for enemy cars to be encountered at the perfect places/times, and less so about the driving skill?

Yes. One optimal pattern per race that could be in a save state pack. I think we all agree that evolution/devolution takes the spirit out of the game but maybe someone likes the idea of being able to match a TAS.

I'm not very creative. I don't know the elegant solution.

Hello,

I was doing some runs. Just got a new pc was getting ready to run it again.

Save states are banned? The save state could be specified only to start from the upgrade selection screen.

I dont know about the RnG. I think the 99 nitros max stats is much more heavily reliable on RnG.

The currrent world recotd is practically unbeatable because of this. I dont think you can get better RnG that what happened on that run.

The 12 nitros per race was a good idea i thought. Its fun, i dont think much RnG manipulation would matter in what a single race is. Theres a 12 nitro limit per race. But i dont know.

Well, cool. catch you guys later. Happy new year

Thanks for filling us in Jak, I can add you back if you think some changes might inspire some more runners.

I just think that unless we're providing the exact save states we want people to use, the manipulation leading up to actual run needs to be documented. Otherwise, we're just rewarding the people who grinded the game for the perfect RNG, which is fine, that's the case in a lot of titles. But when that incredible luck is showcased, it's always including the entirety of the game run so that everyone can see roughly how that luck was generated. Off-Road doesn't have a Time Trial mode like many other racing titles, so we're left to do this during a normal race campaign, where we have tons of opportunities to impact the RNG of the race we plan to submit as an IL. In my opinion, those actions leading into that level are likely very significant and thus should be documented in the submission for others to see.

The only other option is everyone getting the exact same savestate to use, which attaches other complications and requirements.

I looked into RNG manip more. Starting from save state is a ridiculous advantage for your first race and we're talking 13 completed in a run. You get the same starting racer AI with same item locations in the same order and approximately the same times.

Whether it's cash or nitro and the exact time the next item appears is based on:

• If the RNG has advanced from other racers being near you and interacting. You can defeat this at the start by nitroing ahead and collect a predetermined cash or nitro that appears at the same time each attempt. Until a driver catches up and your interaction isn't identical. Next item will still be in the same location but could be cash or nitro and the exact time is changed.
• The time you or another racer collects the previous item. While that seems obvious given only one item exists at a time, it's not simple addition. The next appearance can vary by several in-game if the last one is collected a few frames apart. Again, next item is still in the same location.

Good news is the following race would take extreme luck or skill to be on the same RNG position. All items would have to be collected on or near the same frame and your consistency of how you drive around the others would need to match. Other racers collect items on same frame if avoided but you can't avoid some item locations and you're losing time or money by dodging.

Of course, the RNG system limits IL single race randomness when you save state on the shop where the race RNG has already been fixed. Unless you save state from the shop of the race before or earlier. Or we do want a save state pack with same race RNG + maxed stats for equal playing field, or both options?

I think even with no manip, the optimal start is upgrading Top Speed before the first race. Finish second and collect enough items with no nitro use to make up for the lost $50k. Grey racer finishes 4 to 5 in-game seconds faster thanks your Top Speed purchase.

The thing is. We are talking about setting a record time. So whatever RNG manipulation its not going to matter. The reason to start on a save state is to be able to have an upgraded truck to be able to achiebe fast times and better gameplay. The race is limited to 12 nitros used per race. Which are going to be available. This is basically a time atack. RNG does not really matter. The only problem ive encountered is that when you have a fully upgraded truck different configurations (hay hazards) Start apperaing.