I don't own a GameCube (and it would be too expensive to get one.) Can I upload a run with Dolphin if I promise I won't use any emulator cheats?
I think the reason emulator isn't allowed is because of inconsistent saving and loading times from the emu memory card, the easiest way to run is on a Wii with backwards compatibility (pretty common), an official GC memory card (59 and 251 are the slowest, and 1019 is the fastest), and then either a disc of the game or homebrewing the Wii and using a homebrew application called Nintendont that loads GameCube games from a USB.
I think it's a bit unfair that the community doesn't even bother making a seperate Emulator category, old hardware is becoming more and more expensive, for example, trying to get a 1019 memory card is pretty much an investment.
Dolphin should be at a point where it runs accurate enough to be considered competitive.
Accuracy isn't the concern here, the game runs very accurately on emulator, it's the fact that emulator can consistently give you the same maps every time if you can time the map generation right, and Dolphin doesn't have anyway of changing this as far as I know. This completely changes the whole approach to the part of the run that requires adapting to new maps on the fly and resetting for a good map. I don't think a casual runner is going to abuse this but I do think it's big enough of an issue to warrant emulator being banned. Also, saving and loading times are almost instant compared to console, which wouldn't be a concern for a separate category but honestly there isn't enough interest to warrant an emulator category especially when Nintendont is legal anyway. 1019s can be pricey no doubt but you don't need one unless you plan on running this game long-term IMO. You don't even need a memory card at all, Nintendont virtual memory card is completely fine to use (as long as it's 251 or under I think?), and the ruling about 3rd party cards will probably be changed in the near future anyways. If you are serious about doing runs you can always upgrade to a 1019 in the future.
I do think you SHOULD do runs on emulator before investing to see if you are actually interested in the game, or if you don't care about submitting runs do emulator runs. If you are starting from nothing it can be expensive, Wii + Wii2HDMI (unless you have a CRT) + GC controller at the bare minimum, not including resources needed to hack the Wii or record gameplay, but Nintendont AND virtual memory card being allowed already increases accessibility by a ton.
I think it's a bit unfair that the community doesn't even bother making a seperate Emulator category, old hardware is becoming more and more expensive, for example, trying to get a 1019 memory card is pretty much an investment.
When it comes to competition if you're not willing to invest you don't want to compete.
Invest if you want to compete.
Asking others to change the competition in order for you to merely be included...? Why not just play for fun then.
I agree with emulator being needed for more players to compete
yeah emulator being allowed would be nice; should maybe separate emu runs from on console if made legal but encouraging more people to run and compare times ultimately is I assume our goal here.
When it comes to competition if you're not willing to invest you don't want to compete.
That assumes competition should be gated by how much someone is willing or able to spend, which feels like a weird standard.
This completely changes the whole approach to the part of the run that requires adapting to new maps on the fly and resetting for a good map. I don't think a casual runner is going to abuse this but I do think it's big enough of an issue to warrant emulator being banned.
If emulator has its own category, then differences like consistent map generation don’t really affect console competition at all. Separate categories exist specifically to account for those kinds of differences, so I don’t see why that alone would justify banning emulator entirely. It was already mentioned that loading times wouldn’t matter in a separate emulator category, so it feels inconsistent not to apply that same logic to map generation.
And yeah, emulator runs are going to look nothing like console runs because it will be like this:
- On console: success depends heavily on RNG (town layout)
- On emulator: success depends more on execution and optimization within a fixed setup
Also, console isn’t even strictly a "better" experience in every way... using a Wii for GameCube games can introduce aspect ratio and cropping issues that need to be fixed in post, and that still applies on Wii U. Emulator can actually be more practical in that regard, especially for recording and sharing runs.
Is there something else I'm missing here?
I'm not opposed to having an emulator category on a category extension board, but I believe it has no place being on the main leaderboards.
Most runners who start on emulator and want to take the game seriously end up investing in a Wii anyway. Would also very much like to avoid leaderboard bloat, as I don't think emulator would be very popular (most categories would be empty with maybe a couple players max most likely). It just doesn't make a ton of sense when the bar of entry to do runs is already pretty generous.
I was literally about to post a massive wall of text pushing back on the idea that our hardware barrier is "generous." Then I happened to check the Golden Rod category rules and noticed the stealth update: (Trial) Emulated and 3rd party memory cards are allowed. If your time ends up in the top 5... video file... timed without loads.
First of all, I have to give credit where it's due: this is a fantastic rule. Manually removing load times for the top 5 runs completely neutralizes the timing-advantage argument without gatekeeping the rest of the player base behind 20-year-old hardware. It’s the exact compromise this community needed.
Not sure why this was quietly stealth-dropped without an announcement, but I'm going to put my money where my mouth is, dust off my banned Mad Catz card, and submit a Golden Rod run.
