Diablo II: Lord of Destruction Forum  /  Is patching the game during run allowed? (rules question)
  ZutatensuppeZutatensuppe
(edited: )

Hi,

starting classic and converting character in between the run to expansion is allowed. Is the same true for patching the game to a newer version? (I would guess it is allowed, just want to make sure out of interest)

This is not a question about if this gives an actual advantage, just a theoretical rules question! 🙂 I have no idea if it would make any sense in using an older version in practice.

example:
start game at classic 1.07
use some bugs of 1.07
patch the game in between to 1.14d
use some advantages of 1.14d
convert char to expansion
kill baal

 
  JymnasiumJymnasium

I think that's fine. Remember: when updating and converting your character, all of that time is added on (you can't pause the timer). As far as I know though, the reason everyone uses the latest version is because it's the fastest one to run on.

 
  DonForgoDonForgo

As a viewer, I don't like this at all. It breaks the spirit of the game.

This speedrun leaderboard is for Diablo 2 LOD, not D2 Classic.

even the website address is speedrun.com/d2lod.

Daz86Daz86 likes this. 
  NiteKatNiteKat
(edited: )

As a viewer, and someone learning to run the game, this ruling doesn't seem good. There are versions where things are pretty broken, for example the battle net beta version for LoD, where you can dupe rejuvs by selling/buying them. There's also the patch that allows /players 64, which could break players X. Also agree with DonForgo, the classic to expansion character seems odd, since that's basically a classic run with just Act V Hell added on, while this is under D2:LoD, not just D2.

Edit: I forgot to add that in the battle net beta, you can craft +40 mana after kill gear due to a glitch.

 
  RyuQuezacotlRyuQuezacotl

Each version should be it's own category in my opinion. If modifying game files outside the game itself is allowed, I'd argue that back-rolling quest rewards (imbue/ring/anya) is also allowed.

Daz86Daz86 likes this. 
  ZutatensuppeZutatensuppe
(edited: )

Thanks for the answers! I don't think anyone would go to that length and it is probably common sense that you should run newest version at any time. In any case I was just surprised that things like converting classic -> expansion (only learned about it today, didnt see the thread that exists on the forum), or resetting maps via network-play launch (different game mode?) are allowed, so I wondered how far the rules can be stretched just because nothing is specifically noted. Maybe stuff like that could be added to the rules. There is probably a reason for why it isn't that way now, or that anything about game versions is noted anywere.

Personally I am with ryu here, that each patch should be a different category, just for clearness/simplicity, but others may disagree. I also think that conversion of classic -> expanion is ok, and resetting maps via network play. But maybe it just can be explicitly stated to avoid confusion?

 
  blazer-flamewingblazer-flamewing
(edited: )

I think that finding things that could make the game faster in some way (using things that the game allows you to do normally) could be things worth exploring. Lots of other games utilize certain versions, not newest versions, because of version specific bugs. I highly doubt that patching the game mid-run would result in a faster time, but if there is a way it could work and result in a faster time, why not?

If you have an older version of the game installed/unmodified does it still automatically update to the latest version if you try to log into bnet? I haven't done that in a while and am at work for the next month, but if so that's technically part of the game. If spending those few minutes updating ends up saving more time than it takes, you could argue it's a strategy worth routing.

 
  Bender_Bender_

The mods will love to add 10000 new categories for all the patches 😉

Personally i think you should have to stick with the patch you start the game with. Because otherwise everytime you reset you would have to reinstall, which is kinda stupid (start version 1.00, gamble that no lvlreq Tarnhelm and patch it up for example... bad run? reinstall)

About running older patches: 1.10-1.14 are pretty much the same, except the better runedrops in the new ones. I dont know a lot about 1.07-1.09, but i`m pretty sure the no-respec alone makes it slower.
Probably something to worry about if someone actually comes up with something? Could add a "retropatches"-category if needed

About classic->LoD: I don`t really care either way. Think for P1+pX and all norm runs it will be slower either way, so its only a concern for p8 hellruns (yes i have seen indreks run, but LoD-barb can probably still be 60-90 min faster than it currently is and then i dont see classic competing)

 
  LaVLaV

Regarding versions:
Other speedgames either differentiate between different versions or a game or plainly say "play whatever version you can complete the game in the fastest" - I am not aware of a game that allows switching versions mid-run.
Is there one?

I don't think we should do that and I think we should stick with the "play whatever version you can complete the game in the fastest"-thing. There's a lot of different versions that are practically the same for speedruns; It wouldn't make sense to differentiate between 1.14 and 1.13 for example.

1.13+ is pretty good for speerunning because of the respec functionality.
<=1.09 would be tough to speedrun due to not being able to buy mana potions.
Does 1.10-1.12 have any advantaged over 1.13+?

Regarding classic conversion:
I think it's fun that people found a way to make it work even though it's limited to p8 Sorcs due to how strong static is on classic.

 
  RiznerRizner
(edited: )

For the most part it looks like all buffs except before 1.13 the paladin hammer would ignore some resistances (so that might be a reason to try a run on earlier versions).
- Blessed Hammer - No longer ignores resistances of undead and demons.

There was also some point where the countess drop table changed at least the percent of different drops, which might have been 1.13. Before whatever patch that is finding a tal at countess was hard. I remember people were considering trying a barb run on an earlier version to get more El drops for runewords, but then finding a stealth was hard

 
  LaVLaV

I have yet to see someone find a way to be faster in an older version of the game and I'm looking forward to seeing someone actually do it.

The issue with Pre-1.13-Pala is that there was no respecs back then, so you would either be lacking damage early (no holy fire) or you would be lacking hammer damage later on since you had to put points into holy fire.

RiznerRizner likes this. 
  stasyszystasyszy
(edited: )

patching is modding of the game files?

which is not allowed by the rules to begin with.

Edit: one is an option in game and one requires outside game modification. For clarity.

 
  JymnasiumJymnasium

I'm fairly positive that it would not result in a faster time, which is why I said I thought it was ok.. but in retrospect: allowing a patch mid run is modding the game files, which is already not allowed, so I'm thinking that's a no.

 
  StuStu
(edited: )

> patching is modding of the game files?

> which is not allowed by the rules to begin with.

> Edit: one is an option in game and one requires outside game modification. For clarity.

You can update ingame by connecting to Battle.net, so "outside modification" is not necessary. Also a distinction should be made between modifying the game arbitrarily and applying official updates. But I don't think changing the version mid-run should be allowed on the main board, that would be something for misc or category extension if people actually started doing runs on a high level.

For runs on older versions in general, I think the best solution is to list the game version on every run. Other Blizzard games (Starcraft, Warcraft 3) are already doing this. Then if someone wants to compete in say version 1.09, they can look up other runs and compare their time easily. Some people might want to run an older version just because they prefer it, not because it is necessarily faster.

 
  WafuWafu

I don't run the game anymore, so it doesn't affect me. Some games do allow this (e.g. TES: Morrowind), but there, you have 2 instances of the game and just switch mid run. Downloading patch from battle.net could depend too much on your internet speed and would be really unfair. We already use RTA to time the runs, so I'd advise against adding more hardware-dependent stuff.

 
  stasyszystasyszy
(edited: )

changing the game file, is modding, no matter even if its done thru the game itself.

edit: battle.net updates is modification of the files and from an outside source. why is this so hard to grasp?

 
  StuStu

> changing the game file, is modding, no matter even if its done thru the game itself.

Updating your game to a newer official version is not modding. Look up the meaning of words instead of making up your own: https:/​/​en.​wikipedia.​org/​wiki/​Mod_(video_games)
Getting angry also doesn't make your case for you.

 
  Teo-Teo-

We made changes to the game rule set which disallows the patching of the game during a run.
There are too many issues that make it difficult to allow.

Specifically patching to the 1.14 version in which the folder of save files gets placed in a different location on your computer.. this would force you to manually take the save files to that new location.

sebastiangussebastiangus likes this. 
  stasyszystasyszy

Angry? im just stating my point. Point being, that patching, is creating a new game.exe hence is "modifying" the file it self by the definition of the word modify.

I know english is my second langauge but : modify "make partial or minor changes to (something). " That is exactly what patching does...

 
  stasyszystasyszy
(edited: )

So no made up definitions, just straight simple english right?

Edit: Grats HelloJoe on becoming moderator = )

 
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