Forums  /  Blazblue  /  Issue with several game listings in the BlazBlue series.
  LivLiv

@Mysteriousdewd Has recently contacted me with an issue regarding several games in this series, the following:

https://www.speedrun.com/BlazBlue_Continuum_Shift_II
https://www.speedrun.com/BlazBlue_Chronophantasma
https://www.speedrun.com/BlazBlue_Clonephantasma
https://www.speedrun.com/BlazBlue_Continuum_Shift

The issue being is that these are simply earlier revisions of the 'Extend' variants of these same games, and do not really belong in the series as individual games being that the current retail edition / latest revisions already exist on the site.

@Mysteriousdewd also believes they really should've been contacted about these as well, to which I can agree. There had been several BlazBlue requests sent in a little while ago to which I rejected and referred them to asking the series moderator.

From how it stands it's been expressed that the games in their current standing just do not really belong in the series, and so a request for essentially removal of the individual games has been sent to us.

MysteriousdewdMysteriousdewd likes this. 
  JakatoXtraJakatoXtra

@Liv Actually I disagree with the issue.

Fundamentally each of the Games are completely different since the overall Game Mechanics are different in each individual iteration of the Game rather than simply being variants and not superseded by the EXTENDED Version just because they're newer since those Previous Game Mechanics cannot be played within the EXTEND iterations of the Game. Those Game Mechanics are completely unaccessible in the EXTEND Version and are only playable as each iteration Individually being run as they are separately.

There are many Fighting Game Examples with multiple iterations of a singular game that are still treated as a "separate game" with having different Speedrun Pages & Categories from one another to reflect that.
A prime example would be the Street Fighter Series of Fighting Games with Street Fighter II being the main highlight.

Despite the Original game being "Street Fighter II: The World Warrior" and one of the later more recent iterations being "Super Street Fighter II Turbo", you still have plenty of people playing & Speedrunning all the iterations of the game that took place inbetween those two different titles like "Street Fighter II: Championship Edition", "Street Fighter II Turbo: Hyper Fighting", "Super Street Fighter II: The New Challengers", and so on simultaneously with one another even though there are newer iterations like "Hyper Street Fighter II" or "Ultra Street Fighter II" that exists.

They're all different games mechanically speaking despite having the same "Endings" or "Characters" and require different methods on handling them individually because of those different quirks, traits, & mechanics for each game. The same applies to the different iterations of other Fighting Games like BlazBlue because even though EXTENDs do exist, and are more recent releases in comparison, that doesn't mean people aren't Speedrunning the other games in the Series! In fact some folks are specifically Speedrunning the other games because of how different the Game Mechanics are, like how people who Speedrun Street Fighter II Games do, or many other Fighting Games with different iterations.

In fact just this past Memorial Day Weekend I participated in a Speedrun Event for Charity where multiple people along side myself did a variety of Speedruns of each individual iteration of BlazBlue and the hosts of the event were planning on submitting them in their respective Pages & Categories for each game once all the footage is sorted & compiled together.

A more unified initiative to building an active community for BlazBlue Title Speedruns has been forming however there were many concerns about the lack of representation of the missing Game Titles for Speedruns, as well other concerns about the games that were already listed prior to those iterations of the games being added in that I expressed towards the Series Moderator however I never did receive a reply or a response about them, which in turn caused many more concerns amongst the community leading a few people worried about their voices not being heard or would be ignored should they attempt to express those concerns.

Due to the lack of interaction, response, and updates from the Singular Speedrun Series Moderator now that the community is becoming more active as of late some are even considering to believe that this could be a low case of "monopolization" of the BlazBlue Series to meet the Singular Series Mod's own whims rather than being a collaborative community effort where everyone can safely say their piece to say and actively working with a few Series Overseers in charge for the overall benefit of the community.

Now I'm just someone speaking for them currently since I was chosen to represent those concerns by the people thanks to actually getting the other iterations of the BlazBlue Games that community wants to play approved here so they could start doing Speedruns of them ASAP.

However, I'm not partial to spreading rumors so I would like to express that I am neutral on that particular front but I am still vocal in that there is a community demand for Multiple Speedruns & Multiple Categories of all the different iterations of Blazblue thanks to them all having different Game Mechanics exclusive to each Title along with reaffirming there are some concerns about how a few of the games are currently being handled.

As of right now footage from a Charity Event from this past weekend is being compiled to submit various Runs of the games within the Blazblue Series, including the games in question by this very thread, and another event that involves those games being Speedrunned is scheduled for next week.

In the end I can safely say that there is a demand for them to be represented individually as their own games.

 
  LivLiv

Could any of the people who happen to share these opinions be able to post their respective thoughts in here? It's especially hard to determine the exact situation without first seeing any of the footage, runs, and word from these other runners, and so forth. If they feel so strongly about this idea then I feel they should also be posting in here, or trying to get across their opinion somehow, and not entrusting solely one person to speak for every individual.

At least from what MysteriousDewd has told me, no attempt at contact in concern of adding the aforementioned list of four titles in the series was ever attempted with him. They could've been merged in some way into the current titles had that been the case they expressed to me (in fact MysteriousDewd was talking to me earlier regarding a merger on the categories and so forth), but unfortunately due to them being unaware these titles were being requested that was unable to occur.

For the time being, I've added @Mysteriousdewd as a Mod to the other games as a sort of compromise in this situation of miscommunication.

 
  MysteriousdewdMysteriousdewd

No word has been brought to me about ANY desire for the previous iterations to be added as categories. If there were any desire such as when someone wanted Crosstag to be added, I would've added the other iterations. But the majority of the community plays the modern adaptations. The only major reason a person could want to play the previous iterations is to fish for easy WR since there won't be many people going for it.

I am with @Liv with this. Can you provide any proof of others wanting to submit runs to these categories?

Also @JakatoXtra I have responded to you in more than a fair enough time frame. If you had any major desire for me to deal with problems sooner you could've easily tweeted at me or come into my streams which are all consistent. Also it was @Liv who sent me the message about you wanting Crosstag added and then not even 2 days later you sent me a message on both Twitter and the Forums.

I have responded in more than enough time. I have a life and with you being the only person to have posted in every forum in the past 8 days AND THE ONLY PERSON TO SUBMIT A RUN in the past 8 days. You can see how small this community is.

You have made no attempts to contact me about adding the other categories and from what I was told you were suppose to contact me but managed to get a mod to bypass the approvals and add you as the moderator which is both rude, and unacceptable.

 
  JakatoXtraJakatoXtra

@Liv
@Mysteriousdewd Well seeing as there was a public event for Charity that hosted a plethora of Speedruns including Blazblue last weekend and another one is already scheduled next week at Convention Center it's only a matter of time before runs are going to be added in. I am attempting to be kept up to date as to when exactly since there were other games that were runned besides Blazblue like Racing Games & Adventure Games but they're currently compiling all the footage of each individual games being run as well as creating a Highlight Reel to show the success of the Charity before submitting everything or handing out copies to the runners.

Since these are a mix between Public Events & Online Content where the Hosts, Guests, Convention Goers, and Participants are flown in from all over the country (Some being known Speedrunners while others signing up on the Spot since it was for Charity) & others participating in a limited capacity from the comforts of their own homes, different time zones are a factor here, but I'll be sending a Mass Message to those that expressed interests in playing those games & actually played them at the Event/Will be playing it at the coming Event.

Many of them also Participated in a ton of Street Fighter II iteration Speedruns (SFII WW, SFII HF, SSFIIT, etc.), a fellow fighting game with multiple iterations with separate Speedrun Pages for each iteration despite more or less "being the same game" but with different Fighting Mechanics for each. They will be waiting on approval by their respective Pages soon as the compiling is done. Since other Fighting Games do have separate pages for each iteration with Different Game Mechanics that's only actually playable on those Individual Titles is why many agreed upon having the separate pages for each BlazBlue Title rather than Combining them with the existing ones because of many factors such as specific Platform Quirks, Characters playing completely Different, and individual iterations like PSP acting different in some areas or requiring not to Download a specific DLC patch are radically different enough to warrant it much like Street Fighter II and it's iterations.

However I would like to point out I did attempt to contact @Mysteriousdewd about concerns from the Community & general questions about whether they were even aware of the sudden influx of active participants(rather that than being limited as it once was) several times over Twitch's Direct Messaging System after I was physically unable to send Direct Messages over Twitter despite formerly being able to do so(might have been a Permission Setting but currently still not able to). I sent those Twitch Messages which I checked regularly for a response to no avail despite him being active on there....Not sure if there was any Stream interference or any problems on Twitch's end itself but I still got confirmation that they went through.

 
  JakatoXtraJakatoXtra

@Liv Though to be honest I'm not very super keen on being "That Guy" to be used as a mouthpiece to convey messages second handedly either which is why I'm now encouraging those who had questions or concerns about the series to step forward & speak up now that it's out there said.

Like I said before I prefer to be Neutral when it comes to conflicts to help satisfy all those involved & help find a solution that everyone can agree on ?

 
  LivLiv

Twitch's Message System was deprecated on March 31st, which means for all intents and purposes it no longer exists. So, for what it is worth, any of those messages couldn't have been sent post March 31st. It doesn't really (at least in my opinion) seem like a decent attempt at contact considering these four games seem to have been requested around May 18th. That's approximately around 2-ish months where no further attempt at contact was made provided the only method of contact used was Twitch. Twitch overall has just always had an extremely flawed messaging system, to which is why I will always Twitch is one of the worst forms of social media contact. MysteriousDewd can confirm if he indeed got these messages though, as the messaging system is currently still read-only until August so he should still have those messages.

Referring back to what @Mysteriousdewd said though, I had previous contacted them on twitter regarding Cross Battle and they responded to me within 1 day which shows they are very active on twitter. So, it just seems odd additionally that throughout all the communities attempts at contacting him, including yourself, that not one person thought to just @ them on twitter normally. It all around just seems quite unreasonable from my end, is all. Especially to say they at all appeared to be ignoring requests/messages and so forth.

Concerning the other users who share these same concerns / have runs waiting to be posted in the games and so forth, their contribution here is greatly welcomed, because it would help reach a conclusion in this situation at least somewhat. @Mysteriousdewd has made it known to me that if people had simply contacted them (to which I would say simply @ ing them on twitter is the best method of contact possible) about these requests they would've been happy to add them. And I feel it especially unreasonable they be implied not to be cooperating with the communities needs and so forth, considering the contact throughout was sorta doomed to fail partially because of Twitch's overall incredibly flawed system.

Edit: According to @Mysteriousdewd also, they didn't actually receive a Twitch message in their inbox. Additionally, he also made it known (with proof) that you DMed him on Twitter on the 14-15th of May, so it seems odd also why this topic wasn't brought up during those DMs, to me. It all around just shows the attempt at contact wasn't really substantial enough, because what I'm being told by you and MysteriousDewd is directly conflicting.

 
  JakatoXtraJakatoXtra

@Liv
Well beside the Twitch's Messaging System a few months ago I also did active Whispers on Twitch to @Mysteriousdewd within the last few days since I know that form of Messages are currently still working since Whispers are often used on a regular basis but they too weren't responded to (Again could be Twitches fault not exactly my first choice either).

The main reason why that was chosen as the way of contacting was I did attempt to send messages to them on Twitter again around the same time as the Whispers I did a few days ago but for some odd reason I was prevented to from seeing their profile, reading their Tweets, & not permitted to send Direct Messages any more despite previously being able to. I'm currently checking Twitter Settings just to be sure there's nothing wrong on my end as to why I'm not able to do, like Block being Enabled or some other setting, but at the moment it's still not giving me the option to contact via Twitter.

 
  LivLiv

Additionally, (I thought I'd make another post just to sorta put these claims away from that post above)

Quote

several times over Twitch's Direct Messaging System after I was physically unable to send Direct Messages over Twitter despite formerly being able to do so(might have been a Permission Setting but currently still not able to)

Now this information is directly conflicting with the evidence @Mysteriousdewd has provided, and overall makes no sense given the evidence he has sent to me.

First off, let's confirm you messaged @Mysteriousdewd on Twitter on May the 15th (he has provided me a screenshot of his DMs) or approximately around that time. Give a little leeway because of time zones and the like. Which directly conflicts with the claim of messaging him on Twitch, as you haven't been able to DM on Twitch since March the 31st. So, I'm confused how you were able to DM him on May the 15th, 3 days before these games were accepted, and unable to discuss this in any way with him on twitter? It's clear that DM conversation took place after the supposed Twitch messages, because the last time you could've possibly sent a message on Twitch through DMs was March 31st. So consider me a little... sceptical of the details persay. Once again, I'm only bringing this up because what you're telling me, and what @Mysteriousdewd is telling me are conflicting greatly.

Worth saying that after this conversation on Twitter, this thread was made:

https://www.speedrun.com/BlazBlue_Cross_Tag_Battle/thread/7jg1n

which additionally could've been a method of contact to use to get in touch with @Mysteriousdewd, as he was obviously monitoring the forum for this game, and he likely receives notifications made on new forum posts as he replied to this thread the same day.

@Mysteriousdewd has told me also he received no Twitch messages (to his knowledge) and said he actively checked his DMs when that was still an option, and has received no Whispers so far concerning these issues.

 
  JakatoXtraJakatoXtra

Yeah as stated right before that additional follow-up post there were Twitch Whispers because you're right in the fact the Twitch Messaging ending in March and things kinda cooled off for the Month of April for a bit but heated up back again after the date of the Charity Event was drawing in closer and since Twitter wasn't cooperating when I tried messaging him back despite being able to do so on May 15th. The option of messaging through Twitter about Cross Tag occurred since it is a more recent game and I figured that Twitter would give a more prompt response which it did! I do have the Twitch Whispers in my Log but then again as we know communicating on topics such as this through Twitch in general isn't the most reliable system though it's still actively showing there....I'm actually more concerned with how I can't message them on Twitter which is I did the whispers in the first place. I'm actively trying to find out why since it's not giving me the option to resume the Twitter DM by despite the fact I was perfectly able to DM them about Cross Tag on the 15th ?

 
  PikaRicePikaRice

@Liv Hi I just got the message about things being said here.

I was one of the runners in the speedrun charity event @JakatoXtra mentioned where we played the BlazBlue games & as well as a few those Street Fighter games.

A long while before the event even happened there was this huge discussion that went on for a bit about actually speedrunning every BlazBlue game for it.

Doing every version of Street Fighter was already on the going to be in the event thanks to them receiving an early copy of the Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection thanks to Capcom and the topic of why every BlazBlue game wasn't featured on Speedruns & the topic of considering each version of the game as separt games did come up with how the games played differently from each other & how fighting games like Street Fighter games each have their own entries with most agreeing that the same should be true with BlazBlue

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  PikaRicePikaRice

For the record I also agreed they should be separated games since other fighters are doing that because of how each game is different. Street Fighter is just the best comparison since it's literally the fighter most people think of.

Also I can confirm there's a few concerns in the community that were building up & a handful of members a part of it discussing it that kinda gave the whole burden of breaking the ice of the topic to @JakatoXtra since he submitted those game even though it would have been better if they brought up the concerns to @Mysteriousdewd himself since Jakato has actively has been trying to stay neutral about the whole thing but they didn't want to start the open dialogue themselves for some reason

You guys know who you are

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  LivLiv

@PikaRice Hey, my main concern reading this is why was none of this supposedly put forward to @Mysteriousdewd in a sort of collective manner? He has expressed to me so far he would've been more than willing to add these games should the simple request arise.

If there was a 'huge discussion'... why was he not invited to be a part of it? Which is why I'm confused over this claim. As the current Series Mod for the game, it would make sense for at least a bunch of people to reach out to him if such an important discussion were going on, and not for one person to attempt Twitch DMs months back (which according to him, never happened, same with the Twitch Whispers from what he has told me, or at least, he didn't get either of those) and attempt Twitter, hear nothing, and just leave it at. That's seems quite unreasonable, to say the least.

At this point, regarding the contact overall, it just seems poor and could've been done far better. As said also, there's tons of conflicting info here, which sort of makes me rule in favour of @Mysteriousdewd contact wise at least, same with the moderation. The games though, MysteriousDewd has expressed, are fine to stay so long as there's at least some kind of legitimate demand, i.e people running, for them to exist. That aside, what's really needed now for this discussion to progress, though I would rather wait for @Mysteriousdewd to add their input from what has been said here so far and confirmation on stuff said in here, is a showcase of the runs, footage and overall everything that has been claimed to have happened.

 
  JakatoXtraJakatoXtra

@PikaRice

Yeah in Retrospect I probably should have just let Them do that from the start rather than caving into being their "mouthpiece" since I am trying to be Neutral about it and just broker peace. Their the one's who are so adamant about things so they should be talking for themselves about what they want to know. Honestly the only thing I can safely agree with their viewpoint is that the Games should still be separate since that's how Fighting Games are.

In the Meantime how's it going on your end on getting the Footage from the Event?

 
  LivLiv

One thing I'm also wondering as well, does there happen to be a link / listing of this venue anywhere?

Would also help a lot if some other members of this event could post here, just for clarification's sake, because from the sounds of your posts there are quite a few people with concerns that haven't posted as of right now.

Overall, I would say the act of portraying opinion through a single individual is a bad practice to take for these types of situations. Especially so for this case, because I have to go with what is right in front of me, not what other's have supposedly said off-site. That is to say, if these concerns are held by a majority of these individuals, then those individuals really need to be contributing here / posting also. Unless they do so, I can't really take their concerns into consideration for the most part.

 
  PikaRicePikaRice

@Liv After thinking it over for a while I think I can partially answer why communications sorta failed here.

Now mind you I just participated in the event and will also be in the other event coming up. I didn't plan the events but I still knew everything the general planners told all the regular runners about the event.

@Mysteriousdewd was right in thinking that the community was small since frankly it still is compared to other games but it bumped up to around 8 or 9 or so people once a speedrun marathon of all the games was brought up.

At the start it many things were being discussed online with the event planners on each of the different games.

Not just BlazBlue but the other games beinf run as well.

For the most part everything was cool but overtime as it got closer to actually event it was discovered that the other BlazBlue games weren't actually listed.

Which then lead to that whole conversations about adding them in somehow.

Those concerns were brought up to a lead event planner who said they would handle it.

Which I think would have involved contacting @Mysteriousdewd? Since I know they checked off other games.

Though luck would have it that exact event planner ended up not being able to make it to the charity event & was replaced by someone else for just managing what the other guy was supposed to be doing instead of actually making new plans since the other planners were doing double time.

So then it's like a few days before the event and all the other games were a-okay & there were now in person meetings rather than online about setting up all the equipment & any other plans for all the games being rimmed at the event & most of the BlazBlue runners were getting worried since not all the games were covered on Speedrun just yet.

Part of the event's gimmick that game runs would eventually be submitted on to a leaderboard even if it didn't break any records.

Well it started getting closer to event day and many were worried since there was potential talks from the planners about canceling the BlazBlue marathon if the individual games couldn't be added in time but then it was discovered that @JakatoXtra was able to get the games needed to continue the marathon at the last minute approved & the BlazBlue runs were saved & things ended up going smoothly at the charity.

It got kinda hectic towards the end there with people wondering what was going to happen with the games before they got approved & there might have been some opportunities for someone else to contact @Mysteriousdewd potentially but I mostly just did runs for the event rather than the behind the scenes planning so I can't say with absolute certainty.

What I can say is that there are some bizarre concerns from some people but I don't share any of theme besides the one where each game should be considered separate

 
  PikaRicePikaRice

By the way the next speedrun event's taking place on the same weekend as AnimeNext within close vicinity of the convention center featuring the BlazaBlue games, other games, and then some

http://www.animenext.org

 
  JakatoXtraJakatoXtra

Yeah okay being Honest here I'm NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THIS ANYMORE with all of them laying all of this onto me only for Them not to speak up about it....

If they're not going to Say anything about it, to tell what Concerns or Problems they had (Now that it's Actually out in the open), That's totally on them at this point if they want to say anything....Since I was trying to stay Neutral about the whole thing for the most part.....

The only thing that I did agree with them (I think @PikaRice shares this too) is that the Games should be Individual since many other Fighting Games like Street Fighter do that & you can only play each version's Game Mechanics on their respective games on those Games like how "Street Fighter II Turbo: Hyper Fighting" or " Super Street Figher II: New Challengers" are different, have different Speedrun Pages, but both "Street Fighter II".

Other than that one particular concern I think it's best for me to forget all about that other stuff other people might have had problems with and just focus on the actual thing I care about which is all the game themselves being represented.

 
  LivLiv

Considering the situation overall then communication wise, would you deem it appropriate for @Mysteriousdewd to assume control of these individual games moderation wise? He has expressed it is perfectly fine they remain if the desire is there, and from the sounds of it there is footage to be submitted to the games so there shouldn't be an issue in that regard at all.

From the get go, the requests really should've gone through him. It was mostly just a slip-up of communication between everyone honestly. I would've personally contacted him and informed him had I seen the requests but unfortunately I didn't. Regarding any future submissions I can at least personally contact @Mysteriousdewd myself so that there are no more hiccups regarding games getting added and the like and tthat this situation doesn't arise again.

The system on SRC is that you site staff are meant to refer you to series moderators if the games are from a notable series and the series moderator is active/willing to add new games. Which was obviously mixed up, leading to this situation in the first place.

 
  PikaRicePikaRice

@JakatoXtra Also I'm still waiting on the footage from the planners but I plan on uploading them as soon as I get them

In the meantime though I got some runs I did before the event that I didn't end uploading before it because of time. I could upload those up with that will help.