colincolin

I see there was new categories added, I don't know who made this decision or when, but I ask that we can please have them removed at least until we have some people running the category.

Empty categories just look very sloppy, and also I really don't like calling a category "Toad%" personally, I understand that you're beating the game with the Toads, but I believe the "%" at the end of a category name should represent the percentage of competition and not just a random name applied to the run.

I don't really like the fact that this was done with absolutely zero discussion, but I am open to discussing this instant change some with whatever responsible parties.

lolawaylolaway, RedOddrRedOddr and Urso20Urso20 like this. 
  fluffytoycoyfluffytoycoy

How is someone supposed to know a run is an option if it isn't listed?

Its not being excessive with anything like Billy Only, Jimmy Only, Zit Only, Rash Only, No Jumping, Punch Only Kick Only. Its just Any% with Toads and Lee brothers/Dragons as sub categories because they play entirely different and don't have comparable times.

P.S. All the B&DD games were on one board with these categories 2 years ago but it was split up and I am after all this time fixing the discrepancies. The only thing I question 1p2c / turbo being a legit category however that is exactly what the misc category is for.

NeGAtiv4kNeGAtiv4k likes this. 
  NeGAtiv4kNeGAtiv4k

As for the nes version, we had joypads with turbo buttons in the CIS and many players perceive turbo buttons as a normal state for these games, it was for them that a separate category allowing turbo buttons was made. I also saw in other games separate categories that allowed turbo buttons.

fluffytoycoyfluffytoycoy likes this. 
  colincolin

Well if someone was interested in doing a specific run of their own special rule set, I don't see the problem with them doing so, just like there is a guy who does deathless run attempts of this game that I talk to.

Just because a category isn't on the SRC leaderboards doesn't mean that people cannot run it, this has always been the case for all types of gaming/speedrunning. As I had stated however, I don't like that this was done without any particular discussion anywhere once so ever, nor do I agree with these categories being here without a single run done.

If there was some type of competition then I could see it warranting a category extension, but I do not agree with adding a bunch of empty categories to the main leaderboard, especially just because there "may" be interest... No one is even discussing the game anywhere, and as such a small community I would figure working through issues like this shouldn't be too hard.

I would certainly like to hear other's opinions on the matter. As one of the few and only active runners of this game, I greatly value the appearance, and representation of our boards as well as our ability to discuss things like this. This is just my feelings, but I am really hoping to hear everyone else's.

EDIT: Also I would like to add that I understand that our game is a part of a popular series and even tho there is a NES version of the game, the two are entirely different and this is why we have a completely different leaderboard for the two. I do not in any way wish to represent the NES version (I run the SNES version for a reason, I know nothing about the NES version nor have I ever played it) nor emulate what their leaderboards do.
Again, our community is so small we should be able to work things out really easily.

lolawaylolaway likes this. 
  fluffytoycoyfluffytoycoy

"Hello Fluffytoycoy! I hope everything is going great for you and your Family. I just had a quick question. Are we able to submit new categories for games? For Battletoads & Double Dragon SNES, if I wanted to submit an any % speedrun with the Toads instead of the Lee Twins, or do a two player one controller speedrun, would that be possible? Thank you and God Bless!" ~ JKNEF

In addtion, the Snes B&DD board had the categories Dragon/Toad categories as decided by the b&dd community which at the time was the nes/snes/gen/3x versions. They then split them up because it was messy having 4 consoles with 3+ runs each on one board. WhiteHat didn't really care about the snes version at all so he just chunked everything into any%, and was only the mod because it needed one. He then gave me mod status and removed himself.

Why am I saying this you might ask? Mostly just to show how long ago the discussion was made before you were running the game. All I did is change it back to the way it was "supposed" to be from the start because of a request from the other prominent runner of the game.

I can agree that Toad% as a category was messy because it is just any% with another character, which is why I changed it to a subcategory of any%, and I do take your requests seriously, but removing a valid category featured in every other version of the game just because it is currently empty just makes no sense to me.

colincolin likes this. 
  colincolin

Okay I see where you are coming from, I wasn't aware of any of this discussion, and the main issue for me was the complete lack of communication on the subject before change.

Personally I just find the LB to look really sloppy if there are no runs, I can understand if people wanted to run a meme category for fun, I just don't think it warrants a category on the LB.

The point of speedrunning is to be both fast and competitive, where I can see the argument of doing arbitrary rule sets for fun, and I am all for that too, I don't see a run with the toads being fun at all, its certainly not fast, and thus making it a very very arbitrary category. I don't personally agree with having random meme categories on SRC so that people can have a free WR, or to stuff it there just because there could potentially be a run... and those categories usually get thrown into their own category extension LB (if we are going to compare to how other games/leader boards are) and this way it looks much more organized.

Again this is just my opinion and I don't personally call the shots, as I think no one individual should.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that I have been running and following this game for a very long time.. way before I ever submitted a time to SRC, you were not even on the LB at the time Fluffy, and you were not a mod. I brought this up to everyone so we can discuss things as a community, and it has nothing to do with the other community boards since as you have stated we are separated and our own game now... for good and obvious reasons.

lolawaylolaway likes this. 
  lolawaylolaway

From reading this its hard to see why the category should be there in the first place. Yes the other boards may have it, but no one has chose to run using the toads or 1p2c for this version of the game and submit it. If someone does, cool, talk to the community and then add the category to the boards or extended leader boards. Just adding them though when no one is running or has submitted a run for said category doesn't make a lot of sense. Also this forum has been up for 4 days as of me posting this and no one has submitted a time for either of those two categories; they could have done any recording of it and submitted for wr by now. If no serious run of the category is done/submitted by a week, why even have the category?

 
  fluffytoycoyfluffytoycoy

I'm not trying to be king mod over here. I'm going to ask some other respected mods their thoughts on this situation and if what I did is unreasonable. If my test comes back negative I will step down as mod and promote colin to super mod.

Otherwise chill out guys its not like McDonald's is going to do a background check and not hire you because the B&DD LB has an empty subcategory.

@lolawaylolaway To use colin's own offensive logic against you:

"its actually pretty funny to see this especially since its coming from someone who doesn't run the game...."

 
  NeGAtiv4kNeGAtiv4k

Many people don’t even know that you can come up with categories that are dumb in the leaderboard that they would like to run, for example toad% (toad) they saw only dragons in any% and they think that you need to run only for them because it makes sense in the competition, since for a toad they can’t achieve such a result.
edit:
Look at this page https:/​/​www.​speedrun.​com/​smbce how many categories are here, I don’t understand why it is bad to have many separate categories in one game. I understand that it is difficult to fill them all out, but seeing different categories people can find a category for themselves.

lolawaylolaway and colincolin like this. 
  colincolin

Okay, its great that you linked that because its a category extension leaderboard just as I mentioned we should use... It does make sense to only use the Lee twins for competition, since the game is a legit meme with how bad the toads are in it...

If we were to make a category extension leaderboard (one that could be displayed on the tab there in our main category's LB, it just goes underneath the full runs there) and put a bunch of empty meme categories that no one is ever going to run, I would be cool with it. I would like to note it has been 5 days since I have posted this, this being after the request for the categories, and the person who has requested them has neither responded to this topic or submitted a run and I have messaged them previously as well. (They have messaged me back, still waiting for their input)

If there was any serious type of competition, and not simply limiting yourself making it a meme/challenge run, and or even if we had even just one person who has routed it or done a run then maybe I could understand the reason for adding it... but clearly it just seems that the intent is to have free categories to get a non competitive WR in, and it looks really ugly on the leaderboards which I personally actually care about.

Not to mention all this should have been discussed prior to the change, since the leader board did in fact NOT look like this before hand, and the switch was simply made years after the split from the old lb.

Just because you haven't done a run yet before doesn't mean your input is invalid, I will admit I am probably coming off a little hostile and its most likely reflected off of the fact that I feel personally attacked and pretty upset MAINLY just because this decision was made without any prior discussion at all... I do not in anyways wish to pick a fight here... this is why I took the time to message you in the first place, so I do apologize if I am coming off much more aggressive than I mean too, but it is something I am indeed very passionate about.

EDIT: TLDR basically I don't like that it was done without discussion, I don't like that it was added without any clear interest in the categories or previous runners, I am a little upset about past stuff and dealing with a whole lot (I am sure a lot of people are) and probably sounding overly aggressive with my point of discussion and I apologize for that... I really don't mean to be a jerk I am just upset.