It is my experience that in speedrunning for this game and all games anything that is not an external non-graphical modification to the game is allowed. So although I don't like it co-op babies and overflowing the donation machine should be allowed, but read-only shouldn't be allowed because it is an external change to the game.
I'm gonna agree with Warshoty's reasoning and say I'm against read-only, but I have no problem with overflow.
It's not really accurate to say "in speedrunning for this game and all games anything that is not an external non-graphical modification to the game is allowed." Lots of games have lots of different bans, based solely on the fact that the community has a preference to do certain kinds of runs. For example, the main lttp category is no S+Q. As a community we have the power to do whatever we want. If we want to be doing runs with overflow, we can do that. If we want to be doing runs without overflow, we can do that.
One important thing to note is this: if you're allowed to replace your save file during a run, then it's pretty easy to achieve basically the same outcome as the read-only technique. You just replace the save file after every character, relaunch the game, and you get to constantly overflow. It just costs a couple of seconds. Is this something that everybody wants to be doing? If not, then we can either ban overflow or ban replacing the save file during a run. The fact that people aren't already using this strategy constantly makes me feel like what we actually want to do is ban overflow.
Exactly, it doesn't cost very much time at all when you have a macro set up to replace your save file automatically. I agree that either switching files or overflowing has to be banned.
My opinion, for what it's worth, is to ban read-only (and any mid-run file manip) but allow overflow.
My reasoning is that overflow is a game mechanic. Therefore, it shouldn't be banned. Theoretically you could set up three files with 999 machines prior to your run without any file manipulation.
But mid-run file manip is not a game mechanic. File prep is just a shortcut to starting a run. Mid-run file manip, however, is beyond the scope of what anyone could theoretically do without touching game files at all.
In this scenario, the runner has the choice to overflow his first two machines. Or overflow all three, if he really wants.
I have an alternate proposal, which may be a discussion for another post. I propose making separate categories. Vanilla (no file manip, no co-op baby, no S+Q strats, no trackers) and Chocolate (these strats allowed). Of course the size of the community might not warrant separate categories, but it's an idea. As far as enforceability of trackers: it'd be an honor system, as this community has lived w/ the honor system this long w/o many hiccups.
Anyway that's my 2 cents, take it or leave it.
HeyGuys.
I find these kinds of conversations really interesting, and my default position is always game-mechanics are innocent until proven guilty, and outside mods are guilty until proven innocent.
That said, overturning any of these default positions requires community consensus. It seems like people are fine with item trackers (which are actually crazy super useful in speedrunning) and the stats mod thing. And people have no problem with running on someone else's save file.
So if it gets down to opinions, then it becomes what is right for the community. As some of you might know, I used to speedrun Zelda 2, the any% category is under 20 minutes. It is the fastest way to beat the game, but people wanted to actually run most of the game, so they made a different category (All-Keys 100%) which is what everyone pretty much runs now. So the general rule is, vanilla stuff is good to go, unless it kinda ruins speedrunning.
IMO, baby-co-op doesn't ruin speedrunning, it is part of the speedrunner's arms-race. Overflow seems fine too, though I can see more of an argument to have that banned (again, if it breaks the spirit of the speedrun, like the glitches in Zelda 2 or the 0:00 pokemon speedrun). I believe that modding any gamefile to be read-only is really weird because it's totally altering the way the game plays and I am personally opposed to it.
One thing to remember though, is that these kinds of conversations are nothing but good for the community!
I know I am late to the discussion but I wanted to give my 2-cents. Because it would be so hard to enforce the "No read only" file rule I don't think it should be banned, and since overflow is a game mechanic it shouldn't be banned (plus sometimes it happens on accident) but rather limit the number of times you can overflow during a run. I would think it would be fair to aloud it to be done twice that way you can still use the game mechanic, you can use the read only "strat" (mostly so you dont have to replace your files every other day) and still be able to legally use the donation machine.
The reason why I picked twice rather then three times is since you have 3 files you would be able to overflow 2 of them then bomb out the 3rd where as if you overflow (overflowed?) 3 then you shouldn't be able to bomb out the donation machine which can happen by accident when trying to kill the shop keeper for the devil deal chance.
I understand that the honor system has worked for a long time with this game but me being cynical as I am, think it would be best in order to make as little things be based on honor as possible for the fairness of everyone.
Conclusion: There is a general consensus for banning read-only savefiles, and there is no consensus for banning overflow.
Banning read-only has no effect if we don't also have the rule "no replacing save files during a run", so it looks like I should add the following text to the multi-character rulesets:
"You can't replace savefiles during a run or manipulate savefiles by making them read-only"
