Forums  /  Aero the Acro-Bat 2  /  TASer offering help
  arkiandruski

Hey, all. I recently completed a TAS of this game, as such I spent a lot of time digging into the mechanics of this game, and would like to help build the speed run to a better level.

If you would like me to help with anything concerning route planning or technique in either the fastest at any cost category or the possible new glitchless category please let me know. I have a few ideas if you're willing to listen. Haven't itemized them yet, but I'll go to the effort if there's interest.

ut110 likes this. 
  ut110

Hello, I did a bit of TAS making myself as well, but I'm no expert at it. I just went and watched your TAS and it gave me a bunch of things to try out. Anyway, I'm always on the lookout for new glitches or faster ways to run the game. If you can help with that, that's great.
I have to ask, that trick where you do the down drill repeatedly into a wall, is that TAS only or no? I tried in the Super Nintendo version and got it in TAS but not normally. This person: does it for Genesis which makes me think it's possible for SNES too.

Also a glitchless category would be cool, I guess it would be more like just no zips.

 
  arkiandruski

Probably. I'm pretty sure if it's possible on the Genesis and you were able to TAS it on the SNES, then it's possible on the SNES as well. Not exactly sure the timing that Garbi uses. In the TAS we pushed right and down drill on the same frame. My guess is you want to push right (or left) really close after you do down drill, it'll work. Doing it before is dangerous, maybe, but play around with it, let me know. It looks like the timing doesn't have to be frame perfect, though.

One thing I like more is a few of the quick zip set ups are possible in real time too. I was pretty sure that the one on Performer's Dungeon 3 would be, but Garbi surprised me by pulling off the one in Bell Castle 3. Also, even though the run soft locked doing the zip in Performer's Dungeon 2, I wonder if it still may be possible. It would require mashing, though.

As for glitchless, thu_ox's latest record does a lot of the things I was going to suggest. The biggest thing I have right now is maybe trying to clip through the slope in Fort Redstar 3 after the snowball machine. (That is if you define "glitchless" as just "no zips")

 
  thu_ox

I once was practicing using the level select code. I was going through Disco Fever 2, and I died after one of the later checkpoints. I had no lives left after I respawned at the checkpoint, so I entered level select and went to Boardin' Zone Act 1 to get some more. I held Right and B. To my surprise, when the level started, Aero accelerated quickly to the right. He jumped upon landing, and hit the right edge of the screen within seconds. The screen flashed white and proceeded as if I completed the level. I wasn't sure what was happening, but I kept holding Right and B. The second act started, and the same thing happened. Aero reached the right edge within seconds, and the level ended. I kept holding Right and B, but it didn't happen in the third act. I haven't been able to replicate it since, and I wasn't recording at the time. I tried looking at memory addresses in Bizhawk to see if I could figure out how to manipulate the starting speed values, but the best I could do was make some scenarios where Aero would drop with zero horizontal speed, and some where he would start with three. I couldn't establish a pattern though. I'm not sure if it's even possible without using the level select code, but if you're interested, it might be worth checking out.

 
  arkiandruski

I managed to make the zip happen in real time on emulator for SNES. It looks like you basically have to press the buttons near simultaneously, but there is some leeway. The most important thing is getting the timing down. If Aero stays on the ground too long between jumps, the wall will push him out. Once you get the timing down, though, it's pretty consistent.

If you would like to practice in Bizhawk, you can see Aero's X position in RAM position 000058 and subpixel is 00005A, Two byte values.

And here's the .bk2 from that session, if you want to see what my input looked like.

http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49206637833187916

I never encountered that Boardin' Zone glitch. I'll try to play around with it. No promises, though.

 
  ut110

I managed to do it once, but man do I hate doing it. By the way arkiandruski, currently I have world record here and I realize it could still be a lot better, even without this glitch. I did this before watching your TAS or seeing Garbi's vid.

Edit: now Ox has WR

Also I can't even really find anywhere where it would be worth doing this zip in a real run. And in the Super Nintendo version, it appears that in Dis Industries, the level exits are not just sitting in the boss room, you have to beat them.

 
  arkiandruski

FR 2 and 3 at least are definitely worth it. Also I think the DI 2 should be worth as well if you can get it consistent even if you do have to fight the boss, since the entire level is skipped. DI 3 may be a little more of a toss up, but I think it's worth trying. (By the way, at least in Genesis, for the DI 3 zip at the beginning of the level, you can walk out of the wall.)

For FR 3 I definitely suggest using the spot that Garbi settled on for her attempt. The times are only slightly different in a TAS setting, and you don't run the risk of getting permanently stuck in the ceiling.

I would agree that BC 2 and DF 3 are probably a wash for whether it'd save any time in a real time run, but like I said, the timing's a little weird, but once you get it down, it's very consistent. I would say it's worth trying and playing around with.

As for Boardin' Zone, it looks like if you jump off the first hill on the first two levels, Aero can go a bit faster than the screen on SNES. I think it would be worth it to jump off the first hill in all Boardin' Zone levels, even if it means slowing down a bit before the jump. Probably the reason that the glitch thu_ox mentioned worked in the first two levels, but not 3 is because the slope of the initial hill in the first two levels is steeper. This is still all speculation at this point, though.

Another thing to try in FR 3, after the avalanche section on the right wall, there's a place that you can zip down (it's a fast setup zip) to a bonus area with a cannon, then blast up and travel backward through the bonus area to the end of the level. When we tested in TAS, it was very close in time to the route we settled on. In real time, it might be faster, escpecially if you do the zip in the bonus area that we do.

By the way, I saw that world record you posted earlier this morning. I decided to look at your twitch channel on a whim. I wasn't aware you had found those zips independant of us and seriously, congrats getting BC 3 zip first try. That was amazing.

Also, how long does it usually take for runs to get verified on this site?

 
  ut110

Usually it's been about two or three weeks to get verified for this game, only one mod that does it. I can't imagine ever getting that trick consistently, plus it takes at least 40 seconds to do if done perfectly, and a lot of the levels are only a bit over a minute long. If I mess it up at all it will almost certainly not be worth it. Still though, I will look into the stuff you said, especially Redstar 3. I haven't said it yet but you and Exonym did a great job on the TAS.

Ok, I'm back. Now in my testing, I think Fort Redstar 2 and 3, and the middle of Dis 3, would be worth doing the glitch on as well as Dungeon 2 if you don't get stuck, and that is pretty much it. Maybe the start of Dis 3 and the one in the middle of Dungeon 3 as well, but they are very close. The one at the start of Dis 2 I thought was TAS only or at least very hard because of how you drill up as soon as you enter the pillar enough. Of course though, as I said, even with Redstar 2 and 3 the problem for me is consistency.
Also the zip near the end of Redstar 3 (near the cannon), in my opinion, not worth it because of how you have to drill into the wall at the end to break it open, then back up a bit to get enough speed. It ends up being at least the same speed or slower. That other zip you do in the TAS to get to the top, it seems like you need this very exact position, I never got it once. Plus getting into the area near the cannon is somewhat difficult.

Edit: I may have found a way to do it consistently by putting the controller on the table. Alright, so now I have world record, and the hardest trick is for sure the Bell Castle 3 one. I also had one time where in Dis 3 I got to the boss room with the zip, and the boss didn't even begin to spawn. Normally if you run into the boss area right away you softlock the game because the boss doesn't spawn. You have to wait a couple seconds with the camera just a little off center of the boss room. But this one time, the red lights didn't even come on which was weird. So I don't know if I want to do that anymore.

 
  ut110

Ox actually found out that you can run across the ceiling (or nothingness like in Disco Fever) of a level and then drop down any time as long as the ceiling isn't too thick. Apparently the physics or whatever are a bit different in the Genesis version compared to SNES. In Genesis you just get stuck.

 
  arkiandruski

I'm looking into the Boardin' Zone glitch as well. So far haven't been able to replicate it. I'm hoping this is not the case, be x subpixels do carry over from level to level and don't reset. The reason I'm hoping it's not the case is because that would be incredibly random and unreliable in real time, but as I said, still haven't replicated it yet, so I'm guessing it's pretty rare.

Wait, as I was about to post this, I got the glitch on emulator. Okay, now I can test this. I also used the level select code to get it, but I was recording input at the time. I'll let you know what happens.

As long as we're documenting zips, probably not worth it, but walking across the ceiling in PD 3 by zipping up the left wall is possible. You have to zip up twice in order to do it though, so annoying. Found that with PD walls, the second that you sink in, you can then jump and drill (the diagonal one) to perform a zip in either direction. These seem to be the only walls in the game where that happens, though.

 
  arkiandruski

Okay, I'm going to take a break right now because I'm reaching the end of my creativity. I haven't yet gotten it to the point where it's useable, but I think I have enough to give you guys something to work with.

https://ufile.io/847vh

That is a state state on Bizhawk with the glitch active.

http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49325845479230878

That is a moviefile of me dicking around until I got the glitch. Here's what I found.

You will get the glitch to happen if you enter Boardin' Zone 1 from that state. Doesn't matter how long you wait.

The glitch will remain active even if you enter another level first before going to Boardin' Zone 1.

Also, I played through Bell Castle Act 3 from that state and the glitch still happened in Boardin' Zone 1.

I played Disco Fever Act 3 so I could die in the first pit there, and after I died, I loaded Boardin' Zone 1. Glitch still happened.

When I reset the game, the glitch was gone. Also if I used Disco Fever 3 to game over then played through or used level select to choose Boardin' Zone 1, the glitch was gone.

So, like I said, haven't gotten it useable yet, but have gotten it to trigger, and hopefully given you guys something to test.

 
  ut110

Maybe I'm stupid but I was unable to load that save state. I even went and got the same Bizhawk version. That's new info though that it remains active. Not sure if it helps but Ox just got the glitch while streaming.

 
  arkiandruski

That's what motivated me to start working on it.

Good news, I managed to get the glitch from console power on, which means it's useable!

http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49335669955025293

Movie, if you want to try playing it.

The set up is very easy, but also very annoying. Here's what you do.

After you reset the console, let the demos play. Press start in the middle of the Dis 2 demo. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter where as long as Aero is on screen during the Dis 2 demo. After that, start your game. The glitch will trigger when you enter Boardin' Zone.

I realize this might make the game much more annoying to run now because every time you reset, you're going to have to wait for the right demo again. This also means the thu_ox managed to find a glitch that saves a ton of time in RTA but is not worth it for TAS. Congratulations.

 
  thu_ox

This is incredible. I can't wait to try it out. Thank you both for your efforts. Hopefully I won't need to reset too often.