So just to add a little more substance to my discussion on times in the other forum post:

I started looking into TASing this since it would be pretty quick and easy to do an optimal TAS and I had the idea of a few new strats.

A few important notes:

1. The game operates on a 3-frame movement cycle. This means the main character only moves once every 3 frames (unless a number of specific events occurs such as pushing into a wall or changing opposite direction).

2. The game operates at 60Hz, or 0.01666..... frame time. What this means, however, is the 0.05 timer is actually the resolution of the game in almost all circumstances (key situations can be discussed separately).

3. At the end, the ability to move stops at the 'end' and then 3 frames later, the screen changes colour. This means the colour change is the most accurate solution for time measurement as it is easily discernible and repeatable after loss of movement.

4. On the boards, currently the rules state "Timing ends when you bring the chalice into the golden castle". Technically, the game can end without bringing the chalice into the castle, as the chalice just needs to touch the castle in the correct spot.

5. Entering the castle itself loses 3 frames of time. This should be avoided.

6. The current two leaders have an 0.01 difference. Considering how the movement frames work, this should be either an 0.00 difference, or an 0.05 difference.

7. In their justification one stops the timer when their character disappears 'into' the castle, while the other stops on the colour change. This means that they have mismatched their finish states, leading to in an inaccurate comparison.

So, my conclusion from this is that ON the frame that the colour changes should determine when the game has concluded. (you could do 3 frames before then but that just adds extra unneeded calculations). This is 100% repeatable and consistent after loss of movement. This would need a change in the rules.

The top two times should re-check their times with this in mind to make sure we are looking at an equivalent comparison. I don't think the timing needs to be re-checked for anyone else because their times are not as close and a WR is not on the line.

Please let me know your thoughts on this.

Thanks mate. I kind of have twitter that I don't really use. I'm @CovertMadness, I use discord more - Covert_Madness#7439. I'm happy to help out with modding but at the end of the day I'm really just a guy who wastes too much time looking into random games :)

I guess the important thing from above is the conclusion of the rules/timing changes. I'd love to hear from beatmaster and nestorc on this since it affects them the most, but I think it can be important for Draechan and everyone else to discuss.

Yeah I was myself using color change as my indicator of when to end time, when timing my runs, because that seemed to be the ONLY way of knowing. I'm not sure what else you could even use, because I kept triggering point 4) in OP.

The problem with re-checking times is that unless people have perfect frame for frame recordings, the recordings will have margins of error. But if there's a way to be sure, great. Download those videos and load them in avidemux for frame comparisons. That's how I time these things.

This is some interesting information you have found. Thanks for sharing!

I always began frame counting on the first noticeable frame of input up until the frame where the color of the room changes at the end. I always felt like those were the two easiest frames to see in any run, making it easier and more fair to calculate times in my opinion.

Thanks for the reply nestorc.

Even though I think you timed it to the colour change originally, would you mind re-timing it once we decide to change the final ruling? I just want to make double-sure that yourself and beatmaster are comparing equivalent times.

I'm gonna reach out to beatmaster and get him to reply too before we make any changes.

Hello. I hope this topic is still up for discussion.

I have created a quick video on the topic of how I feel timing should work in this game, and I wanted to put this question up to the mods to see if they have anything to say about it. I think the video speaks for itself so you can watch it right here:

I hope to hear a response sometime soon, and Happy New Year to you all.

Do you have a text summary of where you think time should begin and end?

I feel like the run should begin on the frame before the first visible input and end on the frame where the castle changes colors. Those appear to be the most consistent within all the runs I've seen.