Forums  /  140  /  Future Leaderboard Modifications and Changes
  GameguySDGameguySD

Not too long ago, 140 received an update on the Steam version which included the addition of a fourth level and a complete remaster of the physics. While this has not resulted in a great deal of potential optimal times for Any%, it has resulted in significant strategy modifications and has given to a new category - All Levels. The addition of an Individual Levels leaderboard has also been implemented.

While this has reinvigorated the interest of speedrunning 140, it has also led to controversy dealing with how these new speedruns are to be compared with speedruns done on the original (legacy) version; there are very clear differences between the two, and many believe that simply comparing them directly is out of the question.

Please discuss here your thoughts regarding leaderboard formatting, version comparisons, and any other subjects of interest that have given rise as a result of this recent update.

XcvazerXcvazer likes this. 
  ZetZet

I'm still busy - yeah, sorry about the non updated backgrounds and trophies :< - but I've given this topic some thought over some train rides.

At the moment I don't have a very strong opinion about either to be honest. I do understand the points of both sides, many other games do it, like the Half-Life series; they separate the leaderboards for different engine versions. Also many other games separate their lbs for different releases (console/pc). So, in this regard, I'd understand splitting up the leaderboards for 140, especially since we also have access to the legacy version, thanks to Carlsen and Schmid! 🙂

However, intuitively, I feel like splitting the leaderboard for the engine change would - although it's indeed an engine change - be a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The difference in the versions is so small that no runner would get a time advantage over another version. 2017 seems to be easier in terms of certain early activations (esp. 2-3) but technically 2013 is faster due to actual possibility of early 3-4. I wouldn't see much trouble if 2013 and 2017 could be alongside each other on the same leaderboard, maybe separated with a checkbox, so you can still compare runs of the same version against each other, a bit like running Ocarina of Time on different platform releases.

The question is, if - when we split the leaderboard - should we also add a category for the 2016 version? This one is also vastly different and the Gameguy bridge is almost impossible RTA.

So, my personal opinion on this: Give the versions of the game a checkbox, runs of different versions can obsolete each other. but you can still compare runs of the same version if you wish. Same goes for IL board. Buuuut that's just my opinion and I didn't think it through as much as the long ass pastebin I wrote about the level order. 🙂 Now discussion, please! Maybe we'll have the new, revised lbs up by the end of the week!

(To be honest, a lb separation after the THOTH update would be far more appropriate 😃 )

GameguySDGameguySD likes this. 
  GellyGelly

I think the best solution, as Zet has stated above, would be to have a little selection box to pick which version you're running - legacy, 2016 beta, or modern. It would give a ton of information to new runners, I feel - noting that Level 3 is more often run in legacy than the other two versions means something, for example.

Full split would dilute the product, not splitting would leave too little information to note anything of difference, so adding a little information doohickey is a nice, even ground that covers everything pretty well.

Also, sooner rather than later would be nice, yes.

 
  -7-7

I find it rather awkward to have to be running one version for some categories, and a different, now outdated version for others. I'm all for any solution that involves not mixing the two versions in the same leaderboard.

 
  XcvazerXcvazer

Why not just separate the newer and the older version ?

 
  ZetZet

To be honest, this discussion is getting less resonance than I had expected, perhaps the currently running SGDQ event is preventing some to put their attention towards this thread.

I don't want to keep pushing this further and further away, so here's a proposition: We'll start introducing a drop down menu you can use to specify the game's version you've ran on. If this does indeed lead to confusion, awkwardness and frustration within the community, a full separation in form of different full leaderboards (which would imo have to include 2013, 2017 AND 2016) can still be introduced.

GameguySDGameguySD likes this.