Actually, the defacto 100% run of this game would actually be getting the max bonus at the end that involves getting all the lives and doing bonus stages as well. Just doing chaos emeralds in this game when theres actually more to a completionist category is actually pretty silly imo.

This has been floated as an idea that would be fine, but it needs to gain running traction. I.e. if people actually ran it, it would get added, but it won't get added in the hopes of then people running it.

No, all mods are banned, as per the rules

For full game runs, the categories are called "Newest Version" and "Any Version". Newest version applies to any V1.03 version as stated in the rules. This is any version on PC currently, and any console version that HAS been patched. Unpatched console versions can only be submitted to Any Version.

Note that these category names mean that if another patch (of any significance) comes out, all current runs under Newest Version will have to be moved to Any. I consider this scenario unlikely at this stage however, I think any patches from this point onwards would probably only do things like prevent soft locks, which wouldn't need to be separated. I'd be surprised if they re-patch out Studiopolis 2 glitch, for example. However until we know for sure, this is the best option.

For the Individual Levels, sub-categories have only been applied to levels where the version actually matters, in order to keep as much competition together as possible. As such methodology is being used, the categories are referred to as "V1.03" and "Any Category", as any further updates would only be applied to the levels they matter in. The levels they have been applied to are: With All Characters: Chemical Plant 2, Hydrocity 2, Titanic Monarch 2 With Knuckles: Green Hill 1, Studiopolis 2, Flying Battery 1, Press Garden 1

If I've missed any levels, or if I've misplaced any runs or something, please let me know, and I'll be able to correct it. Also note, as mentioned in the rules and as the name implies, you can submit any times to "Any Version", even if you have already submitted them to the newest one. So you can double submit if you wish, however it's purely up to you (but I'll probably double submit across if it's the record on both)

So, a patch finally hit for console. We all knew this was coming, now it's time to start the discussion about what to do with the leaderboards. So far it hasn't hit Switch, but it's on PS4 and XBone, so we can assume it'll hit Switch soon. The build is the same as the current PC build, 1.03.0919 (where the default build would be 1.0). Note that PC recently got patched from 1.03.08 to 1.03.0919, which changed a few minor things (including allowing Studio 2 skip). So here I'm going to be outlaying some options about what to do.

Variable vs Sub-Category:

In the long term, sub-categories for separation on builds will be the go to. But in the short term, that might not be the best option, as we don't exactly know if there will be further patches, in between patches, small patches, patches that impact mechanics, etc. I'll talk more about that in the future, but for now I'll just show what the difference is.

A variable is like what we have for the consoles. You can see the info on the leaderboard, and choose to filter it as you view, but the default listing is just 'whatever is fastest'. The issue with this long term is that someone playing on a patched version, even if they were to filter the leaderboards, would still have their submission competing with the unpatched version. For example in this picture, the submission would still say "6th" on their personal profile, which isn't particularly accurate for competition on that version.

A Sub-Category is what we already have for "Beat the game" and "All Emeralds". This will be the long term solution. But how to actually handle the sub-categories is something that needs to be discussed. For example, how to distinguish the sub-categories. This for both ILs and full game runs, and choosing an option that works for both simultaneously may prove tricky

One option is to simply use the build number, e.g. the sub-categories would be V1.0 and V1.03. The two obvious issues with this option, would be then someone on 1.0 would be excluded from competing without using the glitch. Take for example Alluusio's run for Studiopolis 2, which was done on PS4 on Sept 1st, using build 1.0. However, he did not use, or attempt to use, the glitch in that level, which is available in 1.0, and 1.03.0919 but not 1.03.08. For all intents and purposes, it should be competing with the runs on build 1.03.08. You could still name them as such and just submit to the one that applies to you, but that would seem rather confusing to a submitter, and incorrect labelling. The other obvious issue would be if there where multiple builds, it would create a potentially huge amount of sub-categories, separating competition unnecessarily and making the middle builds barren and uncompetitive (and potentially unaccessable in future)

Another option would be to label them as "Patched" and "Unpatched". This would allow distinguishing between using what is available on unpatched versions, vs what is not. However there's a few issues with this still, what if there's another patch, and a 1.06 comes out? If that were the case, and there's a level with 2 bugs, both work on 1.0, 1 works on 1.03, and none work on 1.06, then where do I submit a run that was done on 1.03? This is more likely to happen in full game runs, where there could be 10 bugs usable on 1.0, then 5 on 1.03, then 2 on 1.06, etc.

My personal preference is to have only 2 sub-categories if possible. However, if they make a build past 1.03, then there's going to be some mess one way or another. My personal preference is to have to two sub-categories, and have them be "Newest Version" and "Any Version". This also means if you do a run on the newest version, you could technically submit to both. This is actually a good thing though, imo, as it means if the situation arose where even though the newest version is at a disadvantage, if it gets optimised more and ends up with a lower time, the other category still accurately shows the best run. Instead of for levels like Studiopolis 1, where the over the roof has been patched out, but the times are worse, so the "Unpatched" times would actually be far slower.

The issues with this are this would mean for full game runs, if a build was made beyond 1.03 then all 1.03 runs would be grouped together with 1.0 runs, at a disadvantage. It also means runs which were allowed in the "Newest Build" may then have to be moved later on to the other sub-category. However I find this preferable to them having their own sub-categories, because a) I don't think anyone will optimise a good run before the last build is released anyway (they won't be patching this in 2020), and b) the competitiveness for an in between build will almost certainly be 0, so it'd just be sitting there as dead weight. The same would apply to ILs under the same unlikely criteria as described above, but I think anyone who is using a bug that ends up getting patched just has to be aware to know that could be happening in the future, as has to suck it up if it does.

Last point on the IL charts, but the "overall board" (This one: https://www.speedrun.com/sonicmania/individual_levels ) will only display the default sub-category. I'm amusing the community response based on actions from what I've seen so far is that the majority would prefer the default in that case to be the "Newest Version" runs. So that for example, that board would display Level_Select's 2'51"77 on Titanic Monarch 2 Sonic, instead of his 48 second time on console, even though both could be submitted under different sub-categories. Either way not everyone will agree no matter what we choose, but I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts so we can make the most people happy.

Tl;dr: Will be using sub-categories in future. May use Variable for now if an overwhelming consensus on best option isn't reached. Personal preference is for "Newest version" and "Any Version" to be the sub-categories. Would like to know which you would all prefer to be the default option, and any other opinions.

There aren't really any resources because the game is so simple. Speed is just Peelout/spindash and roll jump everywhere. Exit dash is just because the fade out begins when your character is further to the right of the screen, so getting there faster helps, so you just release so you have speed moving right as the level ends.

I've not seen any setup resembling consistency on the SE boss, so sharing that would be cool. As for your specific issue, sadly I don't remember specifically right now (it's been a while, and my memory is notoriously bad).

I guess I'll share the fun on the run ending front. This one's from a while back, but damn it got me good

All runs pre patch or whatever version are accepted, yes. In the future we may separate charts based on what build was used, but for now just submit them as is

Livesplit has a in built manual game time component, add it to your layout and compare vs game time.

So we've decided after all to host IL boards here. And they are up. Obviously they are to use Time Attack mode, just submit away all your best times!

I'll start manually adding times with videos in about 2 days, but I urge you guys to submit yourselves (also because I don't know the speedrun.com profile name of everyone who has done runs). Only other thing to mention is at the moment there are boards for MS1 with sonic and tails because I don't think I can create one for Knuckles without them, but they just have mentioned in the rules that theya re supposed to stay empty. Have fun!

Baffan: The timing for any% isn't really "annoying" at all imo. Like, if you consider that you somehow mess up your completed save file and have to setup another Green Hill save file to do a run with, then starting a file and then exiting is actually ¤faster¤ than watching the intro cutscene anyway, so it would be exactly the same amount of time as if it started from a fresh file anyway. So this point doesn't really make any sense.

But yes, for All Emeralds it is annoying that you have to reset up if you were to get an emerald from a full file. Again it's still the same, so the runners of that can decide amongst themselves where they want to start timing. If only we had a copy file option, then it would be nice...

Said I'd do this once I've played it, so now it's time to establish some actual ground rules (and start verifying runs)

So, regarding categories. The first decision is that we've decided to split Sonic and Sonic + Tails. Tails has far more ability as a partner for one player in this game, due to being able to control flying, which has several known uses especially on bosses, and I'm sure several unknown uses as well. Initially we thought about keeping them together, but to allow runners to explore whether they want to play with Sonic alone or with Tails, and explore the differences more, we've decided to split these. Obviously, using the 2nd controller's inputs will not be allowed, but controlling both Sonic and Tails from 1P input will be.

However, those will be the only 4 categories for now (along with Tails and Knuckles, obviously). For now, patches will simply be listed as versions within the same category (e.g. 1.0, 1.03, etc). In future, these may be separated in some way, but given the game is so new, and unoptimised, there's no need for that quite yet.

Things like All Emeralds and such also aren't quite worthy of having their own category. While slightly more interesting because the special stages aren't auto scrollers, it would still need a lot of specific continued competition to be worth it in the long run. Not against adding this in the future at all, but no need to add it initially. Of course, people should run whatever they want, I highly encourage you to run all emeralds if you want to (and it's probably not that much slower anyway)

Additional add-ons such a CD Mode (Peelout) and &Knuckles will almost certainly never be added. I can't see them picking up competitive traction anyway, but given they added effects right next to debug, it should tell you all you need to know. Again, encourage you to run it if you want. This game has lots of things you can run, if all of them were added the leaderboard would be a mess (beat game, all emeralds, +all medals, new game+, cd mode, s3k mode = 6. Time 4 characters = 24. Times &Knuckles = 48 . Times Patches (2, for now) = 96. We aren't having 96 categories.)

In regards to timing, real time will obviously be used, because the game runs in tons of spots where the in game timer doesn't run (after bosses, and during cp2 boss the most relevant). However, there's a bit of an issue about ¤how¤ to time. The ending spot is very obvious, IGT freeze after TM2 boss. But where to start is not obvious. The obvious spot would be after selecting your file, but it's actually faster to immediately exit the game and reboot it at GH1 to skip the cutscene, and this is really annoying. As a result, the recommendation we've come up with, would be the following: "Timing begins when you select your file, and ends when In-Game timer freezes after defeating the Titantic Monarch 2 boss. You may start from a file with save data already, as long as it has no emeralds, you start at Green Hill 1, and you complete all stages in order."

This would allow you start from either, a fully completed file (with no emeralds), or a file that just started at Green Hill (so a new runner wouldn't have to beat the game first). The 2 potential "issues" that I can see with this are, that it would allow you to have more than 3 lives to start with. I can't really see this being a big sticking point for anyone, but I suppose it's not "exactly as it starts", and that if an All Emeralds category was formed, if it used the same ruleset, you could farm all the emeralds in GH1. It wouldn't be faster of course, so I don't think that's a big deal, and if/when All Emeralds got added anyway, it'd be as a result of several people competitively running it, so I feel like they would sort out what's best for that by itself.

The added advantage of this rule would not only be that you wouldn't have to deal with the restarting the game issue, but also that runners of the game wouldn't have a 50 second cutscene at the start of the run, which I'm sure everyone who wants to run this game would enjoy being gone so they can get right into the action.

Last point is about Individual Level runs. Now, while there are in game leaderboards, they do not carry across all platforms, which annoys quite a few people. Usually the resource for Sonic ILs has been TSC, but with it's inactively and inability to submit other people's times, it seemed ineffective for the method of congregating all systems into a board so people could compete with the very top across all boards, so I floated the idea of actually having ILs on here. However, while it didn't receive negative reception, no one really seemed that keen. Most people seem content with this spreadsheet being updated manually: This one here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17zk67bGYn74rZ2CpkgsgbxKClxeDOvGBBSRumezU9mw But I'm floating it again here, to see perception one last time. It'd take a lot of effort, and mods from at least 1 of each system to be at least semi active over a long period of time. It'd be a lot of work though, so I'd want to effort to be worth it, so if there isn't a large amount of interest for this, I don't think it'll happen here. I should mention of course that the PC leaderboards have already been hacked, that will be a problem with everything no matter what, and that patch difference and such will also become a topic of conversation should we do anything about this.

Last note is obviously that all mods and things like dev mode wouldn't be allowed during a run. Feels obvious, but gotta put it out there anyway. If you have any questions/concerns/opinions/comments, please let them be heard! (In a civil manner)

Tl;dr: Split Sonic and Sonic and Tails All Emeralds and patches might be separated later, but not yet. Former would need to show consistent interest over time, latter would need to show separate interest Secret Modes will def not get their own category. Could potentially put CD/S3K mode for Sonic into the same one, but it'd just be slower, so I can't see anyone really caring, or wanted to be catered to for going slow. Recommend starting time from file select, and being able to have said file already start at Green Hill 1, to skip intro cutscene Up for having IL charts added here, but need to see there's interest in doing so. Let me know if you want it, or whether you're happy with the spreadsheet.

Into Sonic

People have done glitchless runs, but with a game as complex as this one, coming up with a universally liked ruleset for what "glitchless" actually is, isn't really possible, especially given so many can happen by accident. So we've determined it's best to just let people run whatever ruleset they want and not have a leaderboard for it

There's absolutely no need to rush decisions, at all. The reason runs aren't getting verified is because A) We're not 100% on the ruleset, and B ) Most of the mods are waiting for the PC release to play the game fully. The PC release may also change our decisions on rulesets and such.

Trying to rush decisions is just a recipe for disaster, and also makes no sense. We don't have all the information, so why try to make a decision yet? Just be patient, when that drops and we all start discussing these things, decisions will be made very actively. And moderators are added based on people who are not just active, but also knowledge, work together well with the other mods, and are trustworthy.

Your death warp point is set to Eterna city as soon as you enter to avoid you from doing that. You also can't die to poison from the overworld in Gen 4

I bought my capture board from http://3dscapture.com/ds/

There's other around as well that work just as well.

You know the thing at the end of the game where it says "Stage Clear" and that says 100%. Getting that, is what All Levels is.

Doing the Time Attack stage is the end of 100%, it's obviously clear that isn't involved in All Levels otherwise...All Levels would be simply identical to 100%. The issue with calling it All Stories, is you simply wouldn't have to do all the levels, as all the paths are not required to finish all the levels. Hence, All Levels makes total sense.

Some stuff does not work in the PC version, it's a different build

I think it'd be nice to have a specialised spot to put a Discord group for a game. So many games/series these days have specific Discords for speedrunning them now, but it can be near on impossible for a person new to a game to find them at all. Having a little thing somewhere, like another tab on the left when clicking on a game, or even just having the Discord icon below the game picture, like where it shows up on individual's profiles, would be nice.

On a similar note, I think it'd be great to have a separate tab on game pages that also details version differences. As a runner, can't tell you how many times I've felt dejected from running a game not because of differences, but because I don't even know what they are. And as I read leaderboards as well, and see different languages or versions or what have you, just having that information of what that actually translates to makes everything easier to read and understand.

You could argue that like both of those things could be stuck in like Guides or whatever, but I don't think people would actually do it unless there was a specific place for it. And it's fine if those things are left blank if they don't exist, I mean tons of games have the guides/resources tabs with nothing in them too. Anyway, just think it'd be neat as something extra.