Hey all, last night I finally beat oddtom's expert run, so I have some related thoughts for the leaderboard:

• Separating the platforms in different categories. The differences between the Windows and DOS version are significant enough that I'd be comfortable separating them. I beat the Expert category with extreme ease (a 21 min PR for me lol) using the Windows version, and by all rights it shouldn't have made it. If you ever get a chance to play the Windows version, it plays very different strategically, let alone being faster. The NES Legend of Zelda leaderboard is a good example how that might look.

• Adding a 100%/Full Game category (Voyager + Expert), as that is in the spirit of the game. I haven't completed a run of that yet, but might sometime this week. My first thought of it would be to allow the timer to pause (For a reasonable amount of time) between the end of Voyager and the start of Expert, because there's really no strategy involved with entering a new name.

• Adding a hardcore category. I've honestly never finished a game without taking a hit, but if I ever discover that it's possible, I think it'd be fun to add. If I could do the game blindfolded, I'd try that too.

• Removing the individual levels. I think they're too hard to time evenly and really not worth the effort. With all the above changes, the ILs might make the leaderboard too overburdened. I could be wrong though.

• Banning menu skip from now on. I know nobody has used it on a run yet, but I think it might provide too many opportunities to fake a run. It's far too easy to splice a segmented run using this, not that I've tried. It barely saves any time in either category, so I don't think that'll be an issue.

I could make these changes myself, but I want to get the community's input before I go about re-arranging all the rules/boards.

Lastly, some other news: I submitted my Voyager run to GDQ2020, so should hear back soon if it gets accepted. I know that's been a quiet community goal for awhile. After that though, I'll probably stop attempting the category until someone beats my latest time. Please do, I need the competition.

I'm also looking into making a TAS, which would allow us to answer a lot of questions about how the game works. If anybody has some experience, I'd appreciate the help.

Would it make a difference?

If you look at other games, such as on NES, that can use that feature and have been out for awhile, it's also not allowed.

UPDATE: This method of returning to the menu is currently banned.

I just finished the first Zone with no* math problems (including data capsules).

I know what you might be thinking, how is this possible???

When you return to the sign-in menu and return to the game, you will spawn either at the beginning of the sector, or the save game, depending on how far you've progressed. However, it will also save what capsules you've collected. Essentially, you no longer have to die to return to a save room.

Interestingly, data capsules can also be collected in this manner, because the game collects the capsule before you answer the question correctly (although will return it if you die by getting it wrong). This allows you to skip the entire data capsule problem and entry reading.

I haven't applied the technique to all sectors yet, but Dragon Reef 3 (V) has a notable timesave with this. Normally one enters the room with the data capsule, collects it and the other capsule, and then dies in order to warp ahead two rooms. With this method, you can collect the capsule first, then the data, and immediately "death warp" ahead.

Unfortunately, there are limitations. Not all problems are worth skipping in this manner. I merely did it as a proof-of-concept. Secondly, some problems cannot be skipped in this manner because they are in or after the save-room and cannot be skipped by any other means. Notably the radar problem in Dragon Reef 1 (V), hence the asterisk on "no"

Also, this does not apply to combo locks, since (as I have just discovered) the next sector is not triggered until you clear the outro text, and you cannot do anything during the small cutscene.

And while this works for the Windows version, it's a bit harder to execute since you cannot hit F2 and the problem triggers are not in ideal locations.

One other benefit of this however: Zoom will still reappear, if even you've already collected oxygen from her. This method can be used to very effectively stock up to full oxygen tanks. I'm not certain of a use for this yet, but it does allow for 3+ death warps in a single sector, which may be useful in the Expert game.

So there's no question that the CD (Windows) version is faster overall, but here's a short list of the speed differences I've found between them:

Faster on CD:

• The Neptune's movement (marginally)
• Text loads automatically
• Clicking skips through data capsules and supply station outros

Faster on DOS:

• Center positioning skips most problem triggers
• Fewer overall problem triggers
• Hammerhead 1 (V) midpoint spawn is further forward, skipping a problem

Undetermined:

• Question content/frequency appears to be the same
• Load times between scenes seems different, but no consistent pattern yet

The biggest change is the CD version patched the center position skip, which means there are more questions that are unavoidable. Although it does save some time because you don't have to worry about setting up to dive through a problem. e.g. The first problem in Dragon Reef 3 (V) can be skipped, but is slow to maneuver around the hitbox. In CD, it's faster to move straight through it.

The next biggest change is now that problems are so much faster to clear, it's possible some may be faster to get wrong twice and move forward (if it's not an obvious answer), and some death warps are actually slower. e.g. The first problem in Fossil Trench 1 (V) can't be skipped, and may take a few seconds to answer. Because Zoom is nearby, it's possible to just tank the problem and refill in the next room.

Along with a few new problems that pop up, the level strats are sometimes significantly different. Also without long delays during problems and combos, you don't get much rest time and no free time to calculate a problem while it loads. Just something to keep in mind if you plan on playing on that version. So far, it the CD version saves about a minute per zone.

I haven't tried save states before for anything so you may be right. I'd be interested to see.

At the same time, I just bought the Windows 3.1x version (1995) and it's... significantly faster anyways. I'll do my first run with it tonight, but it may create some discussion about whether to consider it in its own category or not.

We all love to hate the combo locks, so I've been looking into a possible skip or manipulation, at least for the Voyager half.

There are a couple of possibilities for how each set is generated:

1.) Truly RNG - God I hope it's not pure RNGesus...

2.) Frame cycling - The particular combo is tied into which frame it's triggered on. I noticed that I tend to trigger it at different lengths from the door, but no consistent pattern yet between distance from the door and particular combo.

3.) Game Seed - Random seed is generated when you spawn that determines all the problems throughout the game. I've ruled out a seed from the beginning of the game, because when you die and re-encounter problems, they change.

4.) Oxygen/pellet combo - This would be the ideal situation, but I've just about ruled it out completely.

In particular, after Fossil Trench, all the combo locks (assuming you're using the default math settings) are either 4 whole numbers of 2 fractions. All of the fraction problems are considerably faster than the whole numbers, so your whole run can be lost by bad RNG (or whatever it is). All of my best runs had at least 4 or 5 fraction combos out of 9 possible.

I did a deep dive (heh) into my past streams and found that my average completed run had exactly 3 fraction combos, which made for a nice 33% (with a very even bell curve too). However, specific sectors were far more common, with Hammerhead 1 getting fractions only 17% of the time, and Hammerhead 2 getting it 53% of the time. Statistically speaking: whack. I'm decently convinced that it's option 2, but the jury is still out.

Anyways, I may be the only person still grinding this, but someone might find it interesting.

Oh! And I also believe that there's a noticeable difference between playing on the web, DOSbox, or CD. It may have to do with these combos, or game speed, but I don't have enough evidence on that yet.

Aaand just found 3 and uploaded those. I'll cool off on it for now because technically I could upload a run for all the levels, but I'll let you work with that as a formatting sample first.

And I may be biased since this is how I record my splits, but beginning each segment at the same of the previous sector, because the doors opening isn't an easily determined start point.

I've always timed my splits when I click out of the ship communication screen. So when it says "Out." and I click out from that. That's the last time you have control of the game for the sector. I keep a record of all my gold splits so I actually have recordings for all these already. I'll upload one for an example.

That's true. It's probably too much effort/too difficult to validate segmented runs or ILs, but I may try a hardcore run just for timing

I know you can still pick up capsules, hit the combo lock, and trigger questions when immune, so not sure if there's more there honestly.

I think the combo lock question is tied to the frame that you trigger the wall, so I don't think you can wall clip it. However, it may be possible to time it precisely to get a good combo, or if it's RNG, to use some sort of RNG manipulation to get the right combo. I need to go back through my recordings to see if there's any pattern.

How does the community feel if we included a new category for each part, where the only addition is that you cannot lose any oxygen at all?

Since some levels in Hammerhead are really hard with this rule, we can set it as you can continue if you reset that sector.

Alternatively, a segmented record could be included, but I think that might be too biased towards myself.

There's a glitch where Zoom may not give you any oxygen if you've just been hit.

I was on a WR-pace run last night when it happened to me and ruined it. Specifically on Limestone Ridge 3, I was redlining it because of a slip and Zoom didn't give me any oxygen, despite still losing her tank. Caused me to die a room or two later and ruin the entire run. I was not happy.

In a slight silver lining, it's the first time I've seen a glitch in this game, which means there may be more - exploitable - glitches out there.

So just be aware of that in your future runs.