Washington, USAOkay so after doing some tests, I can verify that DOSBox runs "Auto" at 3000 cycles. I tested a few runs at the Ultra speed. Here's the video showing 5 different frame-counts between the last frame showing the yellow ant fighting, to the first frame showing the full "Red Queen dead" prompt:
I frame-counted each of the endings, and here are the results: 1st Ending: 2.717 secs 2nd Ending: 1.350 secs 3rd Ending: 1.083 secs 4th Ending: 1.550 secs 5th Ending: .833 secs
Izumi's Ending: .283 secs
In all fairness, the first ending was longer because the yellow ant was engaged in another fight after killing the queen, which extended the wait. Izumi's frame-count comes in at .283 seconds, which is insanely fast but overall I'm convinced I was wrong.
You followed the rules. You're not required to prove your DOSBox is set to "auto" or 3000 cycles. It functions identical to what I saw at 3000 cycles on DOSBox anyway. The only thing I haven't been able to personally replicate was your super fast red queen prompt, but it may be possible with a few more attempts. Also you are correct, the 3-4 squares the ant moves is purely due to in-game speed adjustments.
I apologize for the assumption. Also, GGs on the WR!
I appreciate your response Izumi. I'm curious of the difference between DOSBox with "Auto" cycles, and the website linked in the "Resources" tab. Because the game at https://classicreload.com/simant-the-electronic-ant-colony.html runs at 3000 cycles. I feel like DOSBox runs faster at "Auto" but I will test this out. Your red queen defeat prompt is immediate, which I cannot duplicate on the website even with "Ultra" speed. This tells me DOSBox might run the game at a faster speed, rather than the cycles being manually adjusted to be faster (which I initially thought was the case). So I do apologize a bit, as this discrepancy could genuinely be DOSBox vs. website.
"Emulator runs are accepted if the speed is the same as the original game"
I'm sorry but this run is clearly not the same speed as the original game. In one frame, the yellow ant covers 3-4 squares both in the nest and on the surface, teleporting every frame of animation. Even the red ant in the video is moving 3-4 squares per frame of animation as the speedrunner goes to the red nest. Also the red queen dies and immediately gives the "Game Over" text. These visual cues are easily proof that the game is running at a higher cycle count than the original, almost double! This run needs to be removed, as it does not comply with the rules in the category.
I'm all for someone beating my WR, but they should do it legitimately with the same speed I played the game at. This is cheating.
Yooo Deadguy, you legend.
The main reason people put Moon first, then Transylvania is RNG. You need to get the Moon Skip and fairly quickly to have a chance at a good run. Since the timer does not start until you select your first stage, it makes sense to deal with the heavy RNG first instead of having it kill runs at the end. Magica is the same: if she decides to go top route, hitting her is really tough and it will normally result in time-loss versus an optimal Magica. Once you have a good Magica in your PB, it's easy to lose time there. It makes the most sense to put the heaviest RNG upfront rather than at the end.
With that said, you can run any order you like. RNG is RNG after all, and you could get some good paces running the stages in the order they're set in.
Okay, sounds good! I just wanted to talk about this, because I am not sure why my tunnels vary between 1774-1776 frames, but I would hate to get a new PB only to find the tunnel frame-count is reason for rejection.
I understand that emulators need to be comparable to SNES hardware and this will help ensure that. Thank you mods for clarifying on this.
I had something I wanted to discuss regarding this document, since it is now required to submit future emulator runs. I figured it would be best to post here, so everyone can see the discussion in case they plan on running Contra III on emulator in the future. The document can be viewed in the "Resources" tab on this website, under "Tools".
According to this document, Snes9x performs the Stage 4 tunnel in 1777 frames on Easy with 1 frame +/- of tolerance. Meaning a 1776 frame tunnel run would be accepted, but anything lower is grounds for rejection. Can you demonstrate this 10x in a row in a video, with identical frame-counts between 1776 and 1778? Because I've frame-counted every Snes9x run currently on the Contra III Easy leaderboard, and there's quite a variance. I've also listed the version if the runner did:
UltrosGambini 23rd place - 1777 frames (Snes9x 1.60)
Dewystine 29th place - 1766 frames (Snes9x Retroarch)
xenkaroshi 34th place - 1774 frames (Snes9x 1.60)
shwabteeve 40th place - 1766 frames (Snes9x no version listed)
HowDoUPlay 43rd place (current PB) - 1774 frames (Snes9x 1.60)
Headshotguy 44th place - 1775 frames (Snesx9x 1.60)
Kippe 49th place - 1778 frames (Snes9x 1.60)
HowDoUPlay 49th place (previous PB) - 1776 frames (Snes9x 1.60)
raffa_gs 51st place - 1774 frames (Snes9x 1.5.67)
NickBGoHard 55st place - 1777 frames (Snes9x 1.56.2)
combustibledan 63rd place - 1776 frames (Snes9x 1.60)
Sideswipe 83rd place - 1772 frames (Snes9x no version listed)
I think this is important, because it shows that people using Snes9x 1.60 have achieved between 1774 to 1777 frames for this count. It also proves that some Snes9x runs did have less lag. Two runs had only 1766 frames in the tunnel, but one is confirmed to use Retroarch and the other did not list what version. Maybe that's something worth taking a look at, but I don't think the majority of Snes9x runs are anything out of the ordinary.
I compared two of my own runs as well. My old 13:39 PB was 1776 frames, and the newer 13:11 PB was 1774 frames. I used the exact same emulator, exact same settings, on both runs. By these new rules, one PB would be accepted, and one would not. That is silly, and if this rule persists without change, I won't be running Contra III. I'm not going to frame-count future PBs and hope I have 1776-1778 frames in the tunnel so it will be accepted. Especially when I've shown my newest run, and over half the current PBs using Snes9x have variances bigger than this.
I agree with Jaquio on this issue. If you remap the controller, it should be done before the run begins. People who run on original hardware cannot remap their controls unless they use an EverDrive, so changing button mapping during a run should not be allowed.
As someone who emulates myself, the original layout is very possible to run with: middle finger holds right bumper, thumb holds fire button, and pointer finger toggles weapon swap. In certain situations, you don't even need to hold right bumper, holding the fire button alone will stop you from moving.
The way runs are frame-counted currently is as Ness stated: we start the run on the first frame that shows the entire menu loaded for the first time (including "CD Player in inventory). I have frame-counted Ness's newest run using two methods: I counted from the first frame showing all 3 character names after "New Kid" is pressed. Second count, I added 8 frames from the first frame showing "Go To" on the menu. Why 8 frames? Because I checked several other videos as well as talked to Nisse, and 8 frames is how much it takes from the first frame of "Go To" appearing, to the entire menu loading. First method counted his run at 2:54.167 second method counted his run at 2:54.267
The difference is 100 MS, or 1/10th of a second. Not a huge difference, but enough that it would benefit everyone who immediately clicks "New Kid" rather than letting the menu load. With that said, I think it would be easier to time these starts by adding 8 frames to the first frame that shows "Go To". We wouldn't have to adjust any times on the leaderboard either, as it would maintain consistency with the original method.
I get both sides. From a moderation standpoint, Any% currently has the rule "All known glitches allowed", thus 2-character glitch is part of the breakable systems built into the game that can be exploited for a faster time. On a personal level, I believe Any% should typically be exactly that: break the game and beat it as fast as possible with it's own mechanics.
On the other side, this does make 2-character runs seem pointless in a way, since I believe all future Any% WR-pace runs have to utilize the 2-character glitch now to minimize lag. I could be wrong, but there'd have to be some big timesave specifically requiring 3 characters that would justify the slower performance.
I also am curious about what other active runners think, and what people think should be done in regards to rules and categories.
That's a great idea, a guide would definitely be useful. On a side-note, you guys are truly doing some amazing work here. Transferring the Hunk-O-Match to another character, skipping cutscenes, lots of "New Kid" skips & manips, and a faster way to glitch the tentacle at the end. The route has changed so much, I need to take a long look at it before I try again.
This route would be, "Run upstairs, trigger hidden keypad, wait". While I think it's a good idea to encourage all the endings in this game, I think Hamsteak% already makes a more challenging Gameover% than what this would entail. You still lose the game, but you serve a microwaved hamster to accomplish this.
EDIT - I get that the house doesn't explode in this ending, so maybe this can be an extra category. But I still feel in terms of a "Gameover%" Hamsteak% already does it better.
All of the mini consoles emulate, even the official NES Classic Mini. However the official NES Classic does not come with Chip n Dale 1 or 2, so I'm pretty sure you have a Raspberry Pi, which can be outfitted with many emulators to accomplish the job. Some emulators are allowed for speedrunning, some are not. I would research what emulator your console is using to determine if it's valid. It's definitely not "original hardware" however.
I'm a bit late, but I feel like if you're going to do a true 100% run it might be more fun to include the rest of the game's features. For example, you could require winning a tournament, and rescuing a damsel and/or raiding a castle (since the last two play the same). Requiring the siege of all castles could be a good idea too, but I don't think it's enough on it's own to make a new category.
Hey sorry I'm replying late as well! I thought that maybe this was intended originally as well, because it happens fairly often in the game. However my video proves this can't be how the game works, allow me to explain:
Here's the order that things happen in my video:
- Goblin attacks Felgar and misses.
- Goblin attacks Gwydion and hits for 1 damage.
- It is now B's turn (the only guy who wasn't attacked), and his "Use Item" is already missing from the menu. I don't need to "Use Item" with him, however, so I attack the Ogre and miss.
- It is now Gwydion's turn, and his "Use Item" is also gone. So I pass, because that will allow his turn to come back quicker, and I'm hoping it will fix itself. (And this is the guy I need to "Use Item" with, which is why I pause in confusion on the menu for a moment)
- Few more monsters move, B is killed, then it becomes Felgar's turn. He was also attacked, but unlike my other 2 party members, he CAN use items on his first turn.
- On Gwydion's 2nd turn, he is finally able to use items again.
I could see your "knock down" theory making sense at first, because Gwydion was hit, whereas Felgar was not (Gwydion was glitched, Felgar was not). However here's the main issue with that theory: My other Cleric named B was never attacked, and still had "Use Item" missing on his first turn. If this theory was accurate, he would be able to "Use Item" on his first turn, but as you see in the video, he cannot.
Based on what your video is showing, your cart is behaving much more like PRG1 than PRG0. I attempted to perform the backwards jump on Stage 2 as you did, and he does indeed backwards jump onto the ropes and glitch high enough that the only way to get out of it is to fall and die. In addition to this, your select test is like PRG1, as well as you having the press right for those skips (in PRG0 it's quite easy and you only press down).
While your stage 4 still looks more PRG0, this is the only thing, because your game definitely doesn't behave like PRG0. I can show you what PRG0 does in most situations (down + A normally jumps right regardless of which direction DK Jr faces, not always backwards though).
I'll have to look into it a bit more, but yeah I'm glad you posted that video. I would say whatever versions those are, they definitely are not PRG0. I know you use original hardware, so the only thing I could suggest to find a true PRG0 version if you're interested: you could grab a PRG0 version online and put it on an Everdrive.
Here's that Select test in action. I think this is really the easiest way to tell:
I hope that helps more than my original post!
We'll put Hirexen and Lojen's comments aside, Hirexen is a mod but Lojen holds WR so his abilities exceed most. I invite you to attempt this Stage 3 skip on the Donkey Kong Classics version of DK Jr., as you are underestimating the difficulty of it, if it's even possible. I have stood there attempting thousands of jumps, not one succeeded. This is far from the "3 fails" you claim that makes you think this version is PRG1. Once again, you need to locate a PRG1 version of this game and attempt it, and you will see the difference for yourself.
But let's focus on "Is SalaryMan using PRG0?", and you have further proven the answer is yes with this link: https://tcrf.net/Donkey_Kong_Jr._(NES)
The color of the fruit only changes when they fall. The key factor to focus on is the color of the chains. I have taken a screenshot of your video, and overlaid both images from this website of the PRG0 and PRG1 versions. Compare the chains on the side of the level, as well as the ones you climb:
Another way to test that I can show in a video if required: Hold Select at the main screen. If your cursor keeps scrolling, it's PRG0. If you hold Select and it only scrolls once, it's PRG1.
You are using PRG0. You can't do the skip on Stage 3 in the PRG1 version. Your run on the leaderboards includes this skip, which means you are 100% using PRG0. Hirexen states this in this thread: https://www.speedrun.com/dkjr/thread/3dp9y
While I have no idea how to identify them via physical features, you can play them to easily find out: if you can do the skip on Stage 3, they are PRG0. If it's impossible, it's PRG1. I started with a PRG1 ROM myself so I can verify this, as I had to locate a PRG0 one for that exact reason: Stage 3 skip.
