why would having a gun in my hand or in my inventory cause a rejection within the run? i'm more curious on why it would be banned if clearly no shots were fired from said gun.
As of 'today' the gun is banned... such a meme. If you are not firing any bullets, why would it be banned to remove stair skating tech from the run? Can a (smart) mod please explain?
"Smart" mod. Ohhh~no need to be smug but you can stair skate with the knife and there is another way to Stair skate as well. No need for the gun at all. Furthermore, it was agreed by majority of the mods that no weapon should be in the inventory when it is knife only. I put "as of 11 Feb" because I did not have it in the rules (nor did I think about it) when I originally wrote them. This was only brought up when Crazy submitted his run today.
Knife skate is only viable when you don't have to put the light away, otherwise it's much slower. I find it disrespectful that Crazy has been running this since near launch knife only, and the rules stated he could gun skate as it is the faster tech and doesn't involve firing. Yet it only becomes an issue after the runs are submitted?
Can we please have some elaboration on why the rules are changed to remove speed tech when knife only just means not actually shooting?
What knife only run allows you to keep a gun in the inventory? You can also do the stair skating by pressing forward as well which is faster thn aiming anyway. Cause it is the first run to have the issue brought up to everyone's attention. In Nix's runs he puts the gun away immediately which is what I figured most would do. We have had situations where in runs where something that hasnt happened before or something within the rules that needs to be stated or voted on. It is normal for things like this to happen. None of us mean no offense to Crazy or his run but it is something that all of us are not for since it is not needed in the run what so ever.
Gun in inventory has never been an issue, so long as it isn't fired. If it is deemed faster to skate with W, then why aren't both methods viable? This is not a fair rule change IMO, especially as it coincides with great runs to kick the boards off nicely to entice some competition, they are now rendered obsolete out of a last minute rule change which wasn't there during Crazy's grind today. If a runner wants to lose out on an inventory slot for the sake of skating with their gun they should be able to.
Crazy tested this on stream last week so he will be better at elaborating, but you are slow for the initial put away animation with the light then fast after, so this renders it only consistent when you don't have a light out. It was still slower overall than using the aim animation from the gun.
I understand your concern on this issue and I am sorry that it honestly a waste of time due to an over site on my part when I was typing the rules. Not gonna remember every little thing when typing the rules. But most people dont have the gun equipped during the entire run for a "knife only" run in those games. When the main reason for the gun is stair skating...yet there are other ways to stair skate in the game in a knife run? But most mods agree that that a gun should not be there during a knife only run
the point i'm more trying to get at is why does having a gun out make a difference when it isn't being shot lol. Sure there's other ways to "skate" but if the gun wasn't shot and it's just part of someones movement why would that be some type of problem. Ontop of the fact that you can't even shoot the gun for the croc part but you can toss a grenade <- that's pretty silly. It is low% not defenseitem%
I understand what both of you are trying to get at in terms of movement with the gun but still a bit silly to have a gun mostly out for a knife only run as well lol
"can toss a grenade"...Because most of us assumed that for knife only everyone would put a guns away since that is what most people do..for knife only runs. There is a grenade next to the Croc so you can blow up the canister so I put grenade in the rules. Low% just for Leon's campaign due to Croc and Tyrant I am aware so we called it Low% mainly for Leon. I brought up the gun to canister with the mods and again, they said you shouldnt even have the gun on you for knife run..said there is a grenade there for you to use on the Croc.
Low% is Knife only. Its been stated in the rules since the start that "Only the knife is allowed for this category" excluding Leon for the Croc and Tyrant. Using the gun to Skate ruins the whole point of making this category and thus wouldn't truly be a knife only run. You can use the Knife and Flashlight to skate. if you wanna use the gun do a category that allows you to do so.
Also Rules are changing because this is a NEW GAME. Where still making the rules, setting the roots down. New things are popping up every single day guys. Please understand that.
"Only the knife is allowed for this category. All other weapons are** banned** UNLESS it is the rocket to finish off the Tyrant in Leon's campaign"
This is also true. It is mentioned there but I wanted to make the gun in inventory more clear at the very least
These are my final thoughts on this matter and, respectfully, I strongly disagree. Calling it "silly" that someone chooses to have a gun in their inventory for Low%/Knife% is a bit crass towards people who are simply going for speed. We now need two additional menus, one of which requires us to waste time unnecessarily to segue to the box in the hall at the start of the run.
The purpose of this hobby is to be as fast as possible whilst sticking to the stipulations of our run category. Holding a gun, aiming with the gun whether it be to glide or snap the camera isn't invalidating a knife only run. A big detriment to enforcing the knife skating - which does not work well at all with Claire, and is basically null in sections where she holds a flashlight due to the difference in animation for her and Leon - and the W mash - which essentially kicks controller/console runners out of the competition for these runs - is gatekeeping, which was a big issue we faced when 60/120/Variable was originally discussed. I've trialled these alternative methods on controller myself being new to KBM for this game, and could not get it to work. Maybe a console/controller runner can test this and decide for themselves if it's viable.
This may be a new game, but Low% has always been about using the knife unless scripted otherwise, being the Croc and Super Tyrant with Leon. Nothing about holding a gun invalidates your run in any other game that these categories exist, and is simply a routing choice that the runner makes.
Take all that as you will. All the best with how you decide to dictate where this category evolves.
I can see where using the gun to stair skate is still using the gun even without shooting it. It's being used as a tool for cutting time when the focus should be knives. At the same time I can see where this seems a bit picky. The only advantage to having the handgun is to stair skate and that has nothing to do with killing enemies. Considering this is a Speedrun I honestly wouldn't mind the handgun being used. On the other hand it's picky to even care if I can stair skate or not. But I understand the issue at hand is more about runs becoming obsolete with a late ruling. Anyway, my main concern is would we have to put the handgun in the item box or just unequip it? Because making a trip to the box is slower than just unequiping.
It's just an animation exploit, which is not uncommon in other "Knife Only/Low%" categories in games. The restrictions are there for combat purposes, to limit movement options when the goal is to beat the game as fast as possible WITH said combat restrictions would be counter-productive to the game and its community. To restrict the ability to stair skate on these Low% runs is asinine when any% runs would have the most mobility due to an arbitrary rule; also it completely disregards controller/console players.
I play on Pro...I main console...I have gotten the forward animation to work easily whenever I play honestly. It is what I do for the most for stair skating. I also do fine with knife with no handgun in terms of movement.
Most of this community has been picky with a lot of things from the get go and if you guys dont like it. That is fine, I understand completely but those are the rules for the boards that the mods decided; however, I understand Crazy for being vexed at the situation. It is understandable and I do immensely apologize for it.
@OneCoolMan: In item box please.
I want to add, all of these rules are arbitrary. That’s the nature of speedrun categories. This category is about removing many of the basic tools used in any% and beating the game fast within that arbitrary rule set. So arguing that removing an item is bad because it changes tech is asinine when the entire category is about removing items and forcing different tech. It would be different if the removal was random and had no merit, like if we randomly decided to remove the sprinting ability from a category where it doesn’t make sense to do so or some other oddity, but this is something decided on for the specific type of run.
As far as Claire vs Leon movement differences go, they are different categories that already have known differences in movement that give different advantages. They don’t run against each other, and it really makes this a non-issue between them.
Console runners are not being taken out of competition, they run against other console runners. It’s the reason why Console and PC are separated on the boards. Console runners would already be at a disadvantage to PC folks because of FPS, but again, they’re separated on the boards already. As for PC controller runners, it’s a preference. There are already advantages for KBM players that you have chosen to cede to them the moment you choose to run on a controller, this isn’t any different than that. This is coming from a guy who runs primarily on console and uses a controller when I do run PC.
We are sympathetic to crazy for having the rules seemingly sweep his work out from under him. The rules have been getting adjustments for weeks, and for this category which has only been here for a day, that is no different.
For me knife only is knife only, its kinda clear. You can stairskate with knife too and i play with controller on both PC and console. The real discussion would be the fps but thats me waiting for leaderboard change.
Yes G3 is a pain in the a•• in my practice runs on 60. I think i f-word my self by practice before the rules where set with grenades and stuff. Any tips?
#hijack thread
:) /NuZ
Doesn't matter if some people have been running knife only since launch. That's the risk you take when you plan to submit but rules haven't been defined. But just think about it, the argument is to use the GUN in low% / knife only. Regardless if you use it to shoot bullets or not you're still using a gun to save time.
